valuing your Healey/classic car

[davidb]

This is more of a discussion piece than my usual cry for help. When I look at the escalating values of classic cars, from Hagerty and Hemmings publications, and the various auction house prices, you have to wonder where it will all end. Who is going to purchase my cars when I decide to sell in the future? Who can afford them? I note that a new member to the BCF is now looking for his first Healey. Well, realistically, even the total basket cases are starting at 10K and up, and with astronomical restoration costs, it's just not an economical hobby any more. Fine, if like me, you luckily purchased your beast years ago, and have held on to it. But what about the guys just coming up who've developed a taste for something other than a rice rocket?

Hey I just noticed as I'm typing this up, that little cyber snowflakes are falling on the screen. Good on ya, Basil.

Cheers everyone and Season's Greetings/Merry Christmas

DB

 

[steveg]

...Who is going to purchase my cars when I decide to sell in the future? Who can afford them?...

DB

Very few until their kids are out of school. Here in Southern California, some of the younger owners are entertainment industry people. The price will always adjust to the demand. If fusion electricity and supercapacitors permit switching to an electric infrastructure, that will really turn our cars into horse & buggy curiosities.

 

[AN6-TX]

I'll bite - it scares the dickens out of me. I've been fortunate enough to be around British sports cars since I was born (literally - rode home from the hospital in a '74 MGB-GT). My first car was a '69 Sprite (never ran under my ownership, went up in smoke thanks to a storage barn fire); my second car was a '73 MGB-GT (ran, drove, mostly stopped and was a "light weight" model thanks to the pervasive rust - note, I could see through the front fenders).

I now have Sprite #2 and Sprite #3. I love them both and will always own a Sprite. However, I really (really) would like a Big Healey in my garage someday (soon?!?). Unfortunately, the current market precludes me from doing so. I understand the market dynamics and recognize the aging population that currently owns these cars. However, my fear is that the market doesn't adjust to a point where I can afford a (mostly) reliable car that can be driven and enjoyed any time soon.

I also believe that there are plenty of unrealistic expectations of what a car is "worth", based in part on well published auction results, which also complicates the equation for many. Further, we (North America) are losing cars to UK/Europe at a somewhat alarming rate in my opinion. Lastly, the institutional knowledge that is found in many of the specialty repair shops isn't going to be around forever. So, in a worst-case scenario, the cars may be attainable but the OMR experts (operation, maintenance, and repair) and/or the suppliers may vanish thereby further constraining the future of this wonderful hobby.

 

[Healey 100]

I must admit getting a cheap thrill from seeing the Healey market grow from a distance -- but as the investor class takes interest in our cars, it really does me nothing but harm. I have owned my Healey for almost 45 years. I paid $1100 for it which was probably more than it was worth at the time. It didn't run and needed lots of work. Fortunately, there were still junkyards around with Healey parts and I did most of the work myself. So the restoration costs were reasonable. I've had the pleasure of driving the car thousands of miles which have been nothing but fun.

Now, thanks to all the interest in Healeys, I have raised the insurance I carry many times. If I ever do sell this car, it's going to be much more difficult to get a so-called market value for it. Never mind the capital gains taxes. I certainly don't plan on buying another Healey, they are just way too expensive for what you get.

If the Healeys are now out of reach, there are alternatives. I would look into collecting Miatas, MGB's, Spitfires or even ??? There are still are great collector cars out there that are fun to drive and inexpensive to restore and own.

 

[Keoke]

If fusion electricity and supercapacitors permit switching to an electric infrastructure, that will really turn our cars into horse & buggy curiosities.

Well Steve
When was the last time you seen a horse & buggy on ah road? :highly_amused:

 

[Deleted member 19315]

Alays
[[
yrdewq

 

[HealeyRick]

I had a chance to buy a decent driver 100M (real one) in the '80s for $5k, but didn't because I needed the money to finish my Bugeye restoration. I've kicked myself innumerable times for that decision, but now I look at it as a mixed blessing. The increase in value would've been wonderful, but I can see how trying to decide when to sell would become a burden. My Healeys are special to me and the good news is I'll probably get back what I've put in them if I need to sell. Right now, I'll just enjoy seeing them in the garage, taking them for long drives and enjoy the company of other Healey folks.

 

[blueskies]

When one considers the cost of restoring a Healey, or any car for that matter, the prices for cars in good condition are not out of line, in my opinion. It still usually costs less to buy a car that someone else has restored than to do a restoration. Of course, one then does not have the fun of overcoming the countless challenges involved in rebuilding a car for which many parts are next to impossible to find.

At the moment, we Canadians have it worse than you Americans south of the border. Not long ago, our dollar and yours were worth about the same. Today, because of the falling price of oil, our "petro currency" is only worth about 72 cents. Add in a few more cents for currency exchange and two taxes means that it takes about one and one-half Canadian dollars to buy something worth one dollar in the U.S. Unfortunately, virtually all Healey parts are priced in U.S. dollars (even the sellers in Canada adjust their prices to currency fluctuations). Many of our cars up here also come from the U.S. As a result, a $50,000 Healey in the U.S. becomes an $80,000 car by the time it can be driven here. Needless to say, the flow of parts and cars from the U.S. to Canada has diminished greatly since the price of oil tanked.

On the other hand, this may be a good time for Canadians to sell cars into the U.S. market. The last time that our currency tanked, I sold two Corvettes - a '58 and a '63 split window - on ebay in U.S. dollars. I would hate to part with one of my Healeys, but it is tempting.

 

[Editor_Reid]

My opinions, which may or may not reflect anyone else's:

The auction market skews the perceived value of Healeys. Auction sales are not typical sales. Likewise, in any group of Healeys you see on the typical club tour, very few - if any at all - are ready for the auction market. The cars that sell well at auction are mostly recent full restorations to stock specifications. (A few non-stock colors do well, but that it the exception and generally the "colors of personal choice" that you see so often in clubs among the member-owned cars are value-killers.)

Healeys are available for far less that the impressive amounts we hear about from the auctions, but they're still expensive compared to when most of us bought ours. But then, everything is more expensive than it was a long time ago.

Some very nice and fun cars have not been the subject (yet) of auction market distortion, and you can still get many British (and other) sports cars very reasonably: TR2; TR3; TR4; TR6; GT6; Spitfire; MGA; MGB; Alfa Spiders (1970 and later, and they almost give away 1980s Spiders); Fiat Spiders; Porsche 914s have made a BIG move recently, but they're still attainable; and 944s and 924s represent a lot of fun for the money, etc.

The bubble for Healey prices won't last forever. If you wish that Healeys were worth less, stick around. The day is coming.

Like all trends, the value increase for Healeys won't go on forever. My favorite example of that is the saying from the 1990s, I believe, when someone observed that if the proliferation of Elvis impersonators continues at its current rate of increase, by the year 2020 the number of Elvis impersonators will exceed the population of the earth.

Trends end, and even reverse. Anyone can spot a trend. It is spotting when it will slow or reverse where you find genius.

 

[maxwedge5281]

i probably check most of the for sale healey sites everday. and, it seems that most in the ads go unsold or bid prices are way low to the ask price. this seems especially true on ebay. i like to check the completed auction listings and not many are listed as sold. old barn finds and rusty hulks in the 8-10,000 dollar range usually seem to sell. and, it still amazes me that old v8 conversions crop up almost weekly. i did my first v8 conversion in 1968 and the car is still on the road....though owned by someone else. there must have been lots of v8 conversions over the years when healeys were relatively inexpensive.

 

[davidb]

Just taking a break from the Christmas morning madness to to see what's up in BCF. Some pretty insightful and interesting comments to this thread. Hey, you guys are more than just a pretty face.

Blueskies is right in that the Canadian buck is in the toilet compared to the almighty US greenback. And as he states it's very tempting to sell into that market, if you can find a buyer. On the other hand, buying one on eBay is out of the question.

The problem with these cars is they become special, as suggested by HealeyRick, and their value becomes sentimental to a greater extent (like Nate B's "riding home from the hospital in a '74 MGBGT"). The logical mind says sell that sucker, but the heart gets in the way. It's like losing part of that little dream that you had before you owned something that you really wanted, and promised yourself that one day you would maybe, just maybe, own one.

Reid - you're correct on bargains to be had on some Brit mutts - the TR6 in particular (not so much on the TR2, TR3 and TR4). I love my 6, and can't understand why they're still so relatively affordable. BTW,enjoyed your article on owning a Bugeye, a while back, in one of the classic car mags.

Cheers, and back to that rum & eggnog

DB

 

[steveg]

...Reid - you're correct on bargains to be had on some Brit mutts - the TR6 in particular (not so much on the TR2, TR3 and TR4). I love my 6, and can't understand why they're still so relatively affordable...

DB

Quantity produced should account for the still relatively low prices.

Tidbits from Wikipedia:
"Of the 94,619 TR6s produced, 86,249 were exported; only 8,370 were sold in the UK.[SUP]"
Total MGB production, all variants: 523,836
Ford built 1.5 million Mustangs in the first 18 months of production.[/SUP]

 

[Healey_Z]

The prices reflect what people are willing to pay, so that is what they are worth. There are still a lot of very viable entry level cars into the classic car hobby, the big Healey may not be one of them, but as mentioned above the TR6 is.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Back around the late 1980s, with my car broken down to its last disassemblable piece, the price of Healeys (and most all other collectible cars) were reaching their first most valuable peak; my fear at the time was that the parts prices would also escalate, and I wouldn't be able to afford to put it back together. Within a couple of years it seems, the ramp up and imminent collapse would all become the past.

The end result was that the value of the Healey's et al, was pulled up a little bit compared to the mid 80s, as it probably would've done anyway, without the hyped up and false (speculation created) market.

I expect this is just more of the same with a few exceptions; certain limited production Healeys (LeMans & Sebring) and cars with special history have now been recognized, and that what has been seen cannot be unseen. I can't see 100Ms remaining 1/4-million dollar cars, but they'll remain the price leading production Healeys I'm sure. I don't know what to think about the Sebrings, but they might stay $1M dollar cars, because on the vintage circuit, it's an economical alternative to a C (or D) Type. Unless you're a multi billionaire, and then you're already racing a 50s era Ferrari...

If you're not in the market to sell or to buy, the numbers flying out of the auction houses are just entertainment fodder. I mean, if I really did buy that 250GT SWB back when it was $3500.00 (1970) I'd still want to own and drive it today, not sell it for $15,000,000.00 (I could see insuring it being a real problem though)!

Anyone up for an expensive & risky version of musical chairs; then play the investment collector car game!