Planing my built. Stock vs transplant

[RaserX]

Hey guys,
I obviously so new to midgets that I have no idea how dependable of an vehicle it may be. That said, I'm kicking around the idea of installing a newer generation fuel injected motor. I figure I can get an newer engine trans etc for less that going through my current set up. I'm not looking to make a daily driver but one I don't have to worry about if I decide the take it somewhere far far away.
So many decision..

 

[aeronca65t]

In a Spridget, I would really advise against any engine swaps unless you have <span style="text-decoration: underline">lots</span> of time with custom fabrication <span style="text-decoration: underline">AND</span> you can articulate why you don't like the stock A-series (1275) motor.

Do you want to:
1.-Have fun on twisty back roads?
2.-Do 160 mph at the Bonneville Salt Flats?
3.-Turn the quarter mile in 10 seconds?

A stock 1275 can do #1 really well.

For one thing, many swaps require the center tunnel be cut out or heavily modified (the tunnel is teeny-tiny). This is a key part of the structure of the car. A friend of mine did a Toyota swap with a custom tube-reinforced tunnel. Very smart, capable, hands-on guy with an engineering degree. The car flexed like a banana and the doors would pop open at speed. He ended up installing a full roll cage to get it to stiffen up.
If you're really dying to do a swap, I'd sell it and buy an MGB.

To me, the 1275 is the <span style="text-decoration: underline">perfect</span> engine for Spridgets. Just powerful enough without overwhelming the car.
Ditto, the stock "ribcage" gearbox. It's a delight to shift and double-clutching down into first (easy) is part of the fun.
There is a 5-speed conversion (using the Ford T9...the Moss Motors kit is about $3700). This will give you better cruising, but you can acomplish almost the same thing with a 3.7 final drive (much, much cheaper and easier.....and the 1275 can accelerate with the 3.7 with no issues).

In all cases, if you do any big power gains, the rear axles will need to be replaced with racing axles($300 each) and double bearing hubs (about $500) would be advised.
Or do a custom narrowed rear end with shortened axles.
None of this is simple or cheap and this would be <span style="text-decoration: underline">really</span> needed, even for a 1.8 Miata swap.

And with big power, the brakes won't be up to task so a big brake kit and appropriate master cylinder should be included too.

It's your car. But if it were me, I'd just clean it up and drive it first. These are wonderful, light, direct cars with an elegant simplicty.
You might just like it as is. :wink:

 

[Westfield_XI]

If you throw enough money at a stock engine you can double the horsepower, would that be enough to interest you? The problem with nearly all newer engines is that since they have overhead cams they are much taller than the A-series, this means you have to cut the hood to get it closed. The gearboxes are also a lot wider which means a trans tunnel replacement. Then all that HP means that you need to find a way to fit a bigger radiator into the front of the car, that means more changes and cutting.

BTW, the Rivergate Datsun 5-speed conversion is much, much cheaper than a T-9. $500 or so for the kit and a couple of hundred for a tranny from a junkyard. Figure maybe $300 for a rebuild before installation if it needs it.

It can all be done and the car can even be kept stock looking if you have enough time and money, mostly money!!

 

[JOeyKnapp]

I had similar thoughts to you when I started my project. I came to the conclusion that Nial suggested. I am going to put my car back together as good as I can to a stock configuration and then drive it. After I get some miles on it, I will decide what I want to modify.

It looks like the main engine thing I will have to do is to rebuild the carbs. If I swapped the motor, those could always be sold.

 

[reddsprite]

I agree with all of these posts-unless you are a competent fabricator,or are willing to pay for it,stick with the 1275 and ribcage trans-and leave the fabrication to the minimum-my Sprite has a slightly warmed over rebuild resulting in good power without overwhelming the drive train and components.

Take a close look at some of thess engine swaps and its obliously not a simple swap. Fabrication that is required will run you at least $100 a hour and in some cases its substantial-There are a ton of parts out there for the "A" series
engines and you can go mild to wild,the further you modify the more it taxes components and unless you want to continually tweak and tune stay with what you know works!

Good luck and have fun

 

[BillW103]

I looked at doing a swap on my Bugeye but after looking at a lot of swap articles from small block V8s to electric I went with the 1275. It just looks good in there.

 

[58Custom]

The 1275 sucks on twisty back roads. Can't pass unless you have a long, clear shot and are going flat or downhill. On medium grades it manages to keep a steady speed for a while, but then you gotta down shift and pull over to let other people by. I have enjoyed the heck out of my 1275, but sometimes it's just not safe. That is why I am converting to the Datsun A15. More power, easy to fit, comes with a 5 speed.

Build what you want. Google is your friend.

 

[Healeysince59]

Most of us drive our LBCs for what they are. Reliability, performance, comfort of a sports car of the 50s. But, they are unique with a lot of character that is lacking in todays rides. Transplant a late model engine and you lose a lot of that character and, IMHO, much of the fun. I drive the wheels off my LBCs but I have my 03 MINI for a daily driver and club events when AC is a consideration.

Marv J

 

[RaserX]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the input. These are exactly the typeof response i was looking for.
To answer a few of the relies...

1. I'm fresh out of articulation- considering I have only driven slowly down the driveway once or twice...lol

B. Im not looking for a rocket-I hane an audit quattro roadster if I want to go faster.

and 4.
finally... If I really want to go fast I hit the track on my bike. Nothing quite like draggin your knee at 100 mph.... :angel:

But seriously, I appreciate your posts. I guess I need to go drive a street worthy Midget to get a feel for the way it drives.

So how reliable is the 1275? Constant tinkering or set it and forget it?

 

[aeronca65t]

.....So how reliable is the 1275? Constant tinkering or set it and forget it?

These engine are basically bullet-proof if things aren't too worn.

The biggest issue you may have is with an old engine that has a partly cogged radiator that overheats.....and then blows a head gasket (this is usually caused by a previous owner using something like "Bars Leak" instead of fixing a leaky hose).
But this is a common problem in lots of old cars; not just Spridgets.
If you see evidence of overheating, flush the entire cooling sytem out well, be sure to replace the lower rad hose and use a proper thermostat (I like a 165 F but the 180 F is OK too). If head gaskets blow often, you may need to have the head planed (machined flat).

Otherwise, with time and wear & tear, oil pressure can diminish. You can often make a useful improvement by just swapping out rod bearings and cleaning out the oil pan and pump pickup. And running 20W-50 oil.
But if things are gone too far, a crank regrind and all new bearings plus new oil pump may be needed. Again, this is common with any old car.....not just Spridgets.
My exprience is that these engines can run a long time in less-than-perfect shape. I drove a 948 Bugeye in college (the 948 engine is a smaller version of the 1275 A-series engine). That 948 rarely had more than 15 psi oil pressure when warm. Ran hard for several years and never blew up.
They are durable.

One thing to remember is that these cars are momentum cars. Small horsepower means you have to anticipate situations and avoid using the brakes. My daily driver is a track-rat NB Miata. I can turn much faster laps around Lime Rock in the Miata than my race-Spridget, even if I am being lazy with shifts and track lines. But the Spridget is more fun to drive because the limited power forces you to drive smarter and smoother. It's fun!

 

[mightymidget]

stock.

 

[mightymidget]

by the way. the reason people buy these cars is so they can piddle with them. the spridget was designed for the owner to do repairs, rather than the new cars where dealer or trpair shop does most of work

 

[Billm]

My Midget is really ugly but is OK mechanically-
I have driven Spridgets from Seattle to Missouri and back without ANY issues (and Seattle to Wisconsin and back) and last month I just jumped in it and drove to San Diego also without problem.
If you set it up well then it is almost as reliable as any other car.
BillM

 

[RaserX]

Yup, tinkering here boss.

So I guess I'll stay stock. It only has 60k miles.

I will definately tighten and adjust everything in my build. Just not sure how deep I want to get yet.

Momentum car... Got it. Like riding a two stoke 50 cc bike on the track. It takes forever to get to the corner. But, is a hoot when you get there.

What about the wire wheels? Keep or ditch? Painted or chrome? Tire size/ brand recomendations?

 

[aeronca65t]

Switching from wire wheels to bolt-on is sort of complicated. It's simpler to buy an entire rear axle with the lug nuts for the back wheels. Lots of hardware needed for the fronts too.

If wire wheels look OK (no loose spokes and splines seem OK) I'd stick to the wire wheels.
Clean them off good and spray with Rustoleum "aluminum" (flat silver) paint.

For wire wheels, you should get new 13" tubes. Moss sells them.

By the way, I'd stick with 13" wheels and tires for street car.

We just had a good discussion about suitable tires HERE

 

[RickB]

You can get knock on alloys, and they are very nice.
If you go up to 14 inch then you can get a wider variety of tire choices.

 

[Gundy]

It really is a personal choice. Like chocolate vs vanilla.
My 1380cc has PLENTY of punch to get you into all the trouble you can handle on a twisty road.
These cars were not built to be a 1/4 screamer but slap the 4.2 gear back there and acceleration is pretty good.Cruising at 60 mph is LOUD when turning near 4K but punch the skinny and the acceleration to 80+mph is amazing.
I have no problem accelerating up grades. Shoot hill climbing
up a mountain road is one of my favorite pastimes.
You can make the darn things corner like a go-cart with a bit of suspension mods and THAT is where the little buggers really shine.
I personally love the whole idea of hot rodding these engines.
The sound of an A-series screaming at 7k rpms is music to my ears. It ain't cheap to get there but if you make the commitment and do the deed you will not regret it.
It is just a quirky fun world to play in and makes twisty roads your playground.
I know it's just my choice but I cringe when I see these things with transplant engines and drive-trains.
Do what makes you happy and regardless of others opinions
life can be good.
Welcome to tiny car world!

 

[RaserX]

So given the wheel choices. I would rather stay with spokes. I read that three different companies still make the new wire wheels.Does anybody refurbish the old ones? Im not really a chrome guy but I think the chrome spokes look good.
Keep in mind this will be a garaged weekend car.
Also, what are the best durability mods for the 1275? Electronic ignition? Webber carb? Oil cooler?
Another point I read was that this motor is basically a Massey furgusen tractor motor. Now that's durablility... If its true.

 

[drooartz]

Given how the drive splines wear, wire wheels are usually just replaced (along with the hubs). If the splines go bad, bad things happen (wheels fall off, or spin and you have no brakes). The wire wheels were originally painted from the factory, not chromed, if that sort of originality is important.

I'm fond of the original SU carbs and don't mind points -- though lots like the Pertronix and I'll admit that I have one on my MGB.

Otherwise it's a pretty tough little engine and needs the normal things that an engine needs.

 

[bugedd]

Check out the guys at spridgetmania. They've been doing it for a long, long time. This motor would be a kick to own.
https://www.spridgetmania.com/web/item/1275HP_INLINE/InvDetail.cfm
Or have them build one of the 1380's with 120hp on tap!