Chassis accident specialists wanted [pics inside]

[germanmichel]

Hello @ all,

in my first introduce post I told you my first challenge with my 6 weeks before bought healey.
My healey has some good sides: basicly a relative good body,running engine and absolutly orginal complete interieur. But one bad side... see the pictures.
It is a bad in the US repaired accident. I think the main beam was bent up (direction motor)before it would "repaired" . To straigtening the crumbeld main beam they cut the main beam from the top side and welded it to close the gaps after straithening.(one picture from the inner side and one picture from the outside) To stiff it, they weld a stiffener plate over the weldseam on the outside..... The weldseam on the inner side is not covered. The main beam is relative straigth in the length axis,but the front end is turned, see the pictures.
Has someone an idea how I can repair the frame /chassis <span style="font-weight: bold">professional</span>, without changing the whole frame ?
The biggest challenge in my opinion is I dont know does the "bodyshop" use heat to straigth the main beam. I think so, because of the surface rust (no paint,no grease). I hope the frame is not soft.....

Here one hopefully picture

Thank you for your opinions in advance.

Michel-who live in the country side near Frankfurt

If you found an mistake in my english , you can have it for a present :thumbsup:
Whithout joking please correct me, for better learning english.

 

[stevebn2bj7]

Unfortunately that front frame rail needs to be replaced. There are a few suppliers that make the part, Kilmartin, AH Spares, Moss, SC Parts and maybe a few others. It will be a very intensive project with the car together and is a hard project with the car apart. Everything that attaches to the frame rail needs to be cut free and then re attached when the new rail is in place. The front cross member will also likely need to be replaced as it will be destroyed taking the old frame rail out. The engine and transmission would have to be removed as well as the interior. If you do not drive the car hard and it seems to stay together it may pay to keep it together until you are ready to do a full restoration on it. Best of luck

 

[Cutlass]

From what I can see, that may not be accident damage. What I see there could come from years of improper jacking and an attempt at reinforcing after the damage was apparent. Either way, proper repair will take a lot of skilled work, but it should be worth it, assuming the rest of the frame is in good shape. This repair will require lots of disassembly, so, as suggested, will present the perfect opportunity for some good restoration work.

By the way, your English is a lot better than my German.

 

[germanmichel]

Hello,

thank you all for answering. It was definitly an accident because I found different other signs in the engine compartment and under the shroud. The welding under the stiffener plate is also in cause of the accident repair.The improper jacking is only additional...
I think I have two ways :
1. Cut out and replace.
2. Straithening the mainrail and opening the front ends to take a square pipe into the the main rail from the inner side to support the frame hardness. With point welding spots from the outside trough drilled holes. OK it is nor really professional but a solid work with orginal finish and an easyer way.

Another ideas welcome.

Bye Michel- who know the challenge....

 

[bob hughes]

Michel

I was contemplating your option 2 on an old 100/6 that I had, but in the end I sold it on to a Healey specialist who made it into a racing Healey, the car was completely stripped and the rusted sections of the rails were cut out and new welded in. I think he also welded a U shaped channel along the bottom to stiffen it all up. That is a recoginised way of stiffening the chassis over here.

Bob

 

[pan]

Good day Michel,
I was impressed by the state of the interior of your car, it looks pretty good. But the chassis! That is definitely accident damage. Jacking might cause some dents but not the distortion shown. Even jacking a rusty frame wouldn't do that! Anyway, looks like you will be up for replacing the front of the chassis at least. This should be possible with out stripping the car completely, assuming the rest of the frame is in better shape. The front body panels, including the shroud should come off and the motor & transmission will have to come out.
I wish you all the best!
And good luck with the English, it is already far better that my German.

 

[soren_ak]

hi michel - hope that you find the right solution for you. so that next year youll get to drive the healey as one should.
Im doing a bt´7 myself and might go for the colour you have on your healey - any chance you could give me the paint codes and some (lots) photos of the car every angle you can find and from inside also.

thanks a bunch

soren
Denmark.

 

[germanmichel]

Hi soren,

it is orginal pacific green see the ici code here:
https://www.coloramic.com/articles/hlyclrs.htm
I know that you want, a Glasurit or standox code but I did not have it.

I want paint the car in dark brg and old english white flange...i know it is not org. but very nice... . But for paint code of dark brg I also did not have a colour code...If I ask some owners with a dark brg car about there colour code...90% did not know in which colour there car is painted :crazy:
About the pictures it is clear possible, what do you want to see ? Do you want to see orginal details in the engine compartment or what? Because of the big datasize, I would like to publish it on photobucket.

@pan "<span style="font-style: italic">The front body panels, including the shroud should come off and the motor & transmission will have to come out.
I wish you all the best!
And good luck with the English, it is already far better that my German."</span>

Thank you for complement about my english (without dictionary !)But if I read the english postings from the denmark guys...
To your statement: WHY IT HAS TO COME OUT THE ENGINE AND TRANSM. ?

Bye Michel-who works now in the garden... the project is still waiting because of a lawsuit with the preowner...I bought the car with a contract condition of accident free....

 

[soren_ak]

hi michel . just need some photos ( of the whole car and the cockpict (umm dont know if thats spelled right, and what it really means)so i can deside if im gonna paint the car in pasiffic green or florida green - with white wings.-

btw (= By The Way) i like the britich racing green with white wings my self ( its so darn nice ) and would have painted my car in that if it was possible as an option for my year ( 1960 healey)- darn - will have to buy another car then i guess.

did you buy the car in deutchland or did u import it ??
if bought in D. and if you have a bill of sale that claims that the car have never been in an acident - you should have a fair chance of getting some money back from seller. -

-
soren. -







"edit" - and your english is much better then my deutch come to think of it. -

 

[pan]

The motor & transmission needs to come out to make it possible to replace any part of the chassis. The chassis supports the motor and the welding in of the replacement chassis rails needs room to work, hence the transmission removal. I have heard of the front shroud being used to achieve correct alignment of the car, so perhaps that could be left attached.
Re the legals: I'd also be asking some searching questions of the party that inspected this car prior to purchase.

 

[germanmichel]

Hello pan,

I know and understand if I will replace the main rail parts , the motor have to come out, clear. But I measured the frame approximatly and find out, that the bend is on both! main rail sides exact in the area of the rear wisbone mounting support.
I prefer to open the main rails! I dont want to sell the car really..on the front sides and to straithening the main rail with professional straithening tools (crocodile mouth to planar the crumbling of the main rail, for the middle support panel i would like to weld on special wire for a dozer to planar the concave under side )
After that, i would like to insert square pipes an weld it from the outside through drilled holes, to stabilize the frame.(The shroud has this way to be off)
The rest oft he frame ist rust free an straight.. The rust what you see is only surface rust and oil an dirt.

If I choose this way, why it have the motor to come out ?


Hello soren today I have shoot some pics for you.
https://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/

It is really cool I talk with people of the US, australia and denmark and others about my problems in good old germany from my chair in my home office . Thank you all !


Bye Michel- who is dreaming about the frame....

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello germanmichel.

The main reason you want to take the engine/transmission out is for access.

Are you going to do the work yourself or is someone else?

If it's you then being able to get all around the area to work and especially to be able to weld is much nicer.

If someone else is doing the work your friendship may not last long with the engine/tranny in there. Mainly because he will have less room to move so as to speak.

As far as replacing separate chassis rails you may find it more economical and actually easier to replace the 2 sections of the main rails as well and the cross member as one piece.

I would e-mail Kilmartins' (I only say them because I have dealt with them before) and ask them what they will provide as far as length of main rails together with cross member as an assembly.

the reason I say replace as an assembly is that Kilmartins' will manufacture that assembly in a fixture so that it will fit and most likely be able to advise you on the best method for attaching the new pieces to the old.

Personally I would replace everything chassis wise at the front with new pieces as an assembly. This is because you will then know it is all new metal and apart from that it will be easier and quicker to do it this way.

After doing this you would then know that what is underneath the body looks just as good as what you can see on the outside.

While you are at it have a good look at the chassis where the engine mounts attach. Especially around the outboard vertical uprights where they are welded to the chassis. This is a very common area for cracks to start and this would be a good time to address it.

Your reference to "weld on special wire for a dozer" is interesting. Do you mean use the welding wire used to rebuild the front edge of a Dozer blade?. This may not be the best way to go as this wire is for a wear resistance and I don't think that's what you need here. A good general purpose welding wire is all you need because the standards this wire is manufactured to is far superior to the original material and will be compatible with any new metal used in this repair.

I hope you can keep us informed with the progress. This job will be worthwhile providing it is done right and I'm sure you will see it through.

Don't worry about your "english" as I'm sure most of us can work out what you are trying to say. Some people who have english as their first language cannot spell it out all that well either so it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I agree with you about sitting at your desk and being able to "talk" to people all over the world, it's fun and fascinating.

Regards

bundyrum

 

[germanmichel]

Hello Bundyrum,
your description sounds good this is the way for best finished work, no discussion. But only the part price is 1600 pounds no $...without the costs for the work(in germany approx. 6000$) .
Than I have the best frame with a rusty body :thumbsup:

About the special wire technology. It can be use if you have no chance to punch from the backside of a deformed sheet metal. It is a alternately bended wire that would be fixed (welding) on deformed sheetmetal with more than 5 spot welding points. Than you can hang on a pulling dozer with 5 or more fingers to pull the whole deformed area of the sheet metal planar to the outside. It is a better technology than with the one spot welded pin.

Bye Michel-who like this board with there competent users

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello germanmichel,

It sounds as though you may need to go after someone who sold you the car with an incorrect description of it before the sale.

I'm sorry but I don't quite understand the description you gave of the "special wire technology". Do you have any link to it I can "google".

Regards

bundyrum.

 

[soren_ak]

hi michel - cant seem to log in to see any photos ? says i need a pasword ?
soren

 

[germanmichel]

Hi folk,

@ bundyrum
here is a picture of the tool what I mean :

but in a solid version for the frame
You can see the special bended wire.

Here is the simple version :

@ soren ak, it was my mistake I can`t publish the whole album without PW
Here the directlinks to the pics:
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0015.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0014.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0013.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0011.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0010.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0009.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0008.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0005.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0006.jpg
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/shibapics/DSC_0001.jpg

Thank you all for responding.

Bye michel-who has tomorrow a date with a lawyer...

 

[Frameman]

Hello, My name is Martin Jansen. For the last 25 years I have been specializing in resolving problems just like this. Based on the pictures I saw, the chassis requires extensive reconstruction. There are replacement sections available through various suppliers unfortunately I don't recommend these parts because I have never seen these parts installed successfully. Generally the car will have poor handling. To do this type of repair the car must be completely disassembled, front and rear bulkheads completely removed and then set up on a jig plate and then repaired. There are no frame straightening machines in existance today that can straighten this so beware of someone who says they can.
Unfortunately I think you need to replace the chassis and not attempt to fix or reapir or patch.
I suggest you go to www.jule-enterprises.com . I am the owner of Jule Enterprises. We have successfully reconstructed over 400 Austin Healeys.We have not had a failure to date. These cars are still on the road and being enjoyed by their owners who have the peace of mind knowing their structure is sound and safe.
Hope this helps
Martin

 

[Frameman]

By the way, we already have several chassis in Germany and throughout Europe.

 

[andrea]

Re: Chassis accident specialists wanted [pics insi

be happy Germanmichel
see my frame photos and my rebuild chassis find in UK
https://picasaweb.google.com/searunner44/AustinHealey1006BN419582639ccDallaNorthCarolinaUSA
sorry description are in Italian
google photo album is the better way to put a lot of detailed photos at disposition of many peoples, it is very easy-fast and don't penalize the mail box

We are all very interested in your main frame rebuild system
- the car look very nice and with the rebuild work it can give great satisfactions to you
In what shape are engine and transmission?
Have a good journey
ANDREA

 

[judow]

Re: Chassis accident specialists wanted [pics insi

Well, GermanMichael - I know you didn't ask for this one but... I'd leave the Healey the color it is. It looks great and the interior compliments the exterior.

Oh yes, I am the proud owner of Agatha A Healey a factory certified 100M that is carmine red with black/red interior. My original choice before I found out what she is and her original color was British White with tan interior.

Just a female's opinion.

Judy/Proud caregiver to Agatha