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VB poor parts quality

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I bought a windshield a while back that was too small. You could stick a pencil through the lower corner of the frame with the winshield installed and the frame tightened down. Next, I had a new wheel cylinder only last a few thousand miles before it started leaking. Just got some rear engine mounts in, both are different and one the top studs just popped off (which I can't return as it's "been installed".) I took the 30 year old ones out of the garbage and put them back on.

Included in this order was a cam gear with no timing marks and last but not least....a timing chain WITH A MASTER LINK !!!!


I can remember being taught as a toddler by my father, that <span style="font-size: 12pt">TIMING CHAINS DON'T COME WITH MASTERLINKS FOR A REASON !!!</span>



I've installed a few dozen chains in my life, and I have sold probably hundreds, if not thousands of these things and NEVER ONCE, have I seen a timing chain WITH A MASTER LINK! Apparently, they are buying bulk chain and cutting to fit.
(Costs about $2.)

What really bothers me about this, is the proper mounting instructions for a linked chain aren't included and you won't find it in the manual because.....TIMING CHAINS AREN"T SUPPOSED TO COME WITH MASTER LINKS !!!

I feel for the unsuspecting soul that doesn't know any better and puts it in backwards.

Apparently, VB has suspended the laws of physics and they don't apply anymore. I'll be sure and notify Dad. :rolleyes:

Is Moss any better, worth the extra $$$?

MAN this makes me so mad.....
 

tomshobby

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I agree and have found it the most frustrating aspect of keeping one (or two) of these cars on the road. Why do you think the TR6 crowd in the know is finding so many high quality and dependable replacement part alternate sources. And why there is a fast growing cottage industry producing new replacement parts and components. I better stop here, this subject fires me up on several levels.
 

jvandyke

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I don't know but on my last hobby car one of the "upgrades" was to install a timing chain with a master.
 
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jvandyke said:
I don't know but on my last hobby car one of the "upgrades" was to install a timing chain with a master.

What make and "upgrade" according to who, the folks that sold you the chain?
 

jvandyke

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kellysguy said:
jvandyke said:
I don't know but on my last hobby car one of the "upgrades" was to install a timing chain with a master.

What make and "upgrade" according to who, the folks that sold you the chain?

No, on that motor changing the timing chain/gear/tensioner meant pulling the front timing cover, but that meant the oil pan and that mean the motor out of the car. Those who tinkered often or raced could pop the master link (from above) and remove the chain, cam all that without having to pull the car apart. No reason not to have a master link that I can think of, put the locking pin on in the right direction, and why not?
 
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I figured it was to avoid disassembly. Problem is, sooner or later, a master will come off, they always do. (even if you put it in the right direction.) The master link will stretch, justy like any other link but the keeper doesn't. Pop goes the keeper as now it's too small and off comes the chain. Better hope and pray it's not an interference/zero tolerance engine or bend goes the valves.

Granted, they don't under go the shock load of a high horsepower motorcycle, but camshafts suffer from torisional vibrations...something I wouldn't want to send through a master link.

So, all this being said, if it was a safe practice, don't you think the manufactures would have done it from the start? After all, it SURE is ALLOT cheaper to buy bulk chain and cut to fit different engine models.

The "big three" would have been all over it.

Wanna know what would happen if that chain came apart and dropped down to the bottom at speed??? it would sure make pullin' the motor to change the chain look like a GOOD idea!!!
 

Morris

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I never buy anything from VB unless I absolutely must have it and there is absolutely no other source.

The price difference between Moss and VB is not that great as VB charges a lot more for shipping and handling. Or at least the last time I checked they did.

I personally recommend you get what you can from spitbits.com and bpnorthwest.com. Then go to Moss if they don't have what you need.
 
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I've been looking at those two but I wonder if they have the same manufacture as there can't be too many folks making this stuff.
 

aeronca65t

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There are no timing marks on a 1500 cam gear. Has to be installed with a dial indicator. It should be covered in your 1500 manual.

My 1500 has raced with a master link chain for almost ten years now....no problems so far.

Also, I'd like to put out a friendly reminder that <span style="font-style: italic">we don't publicly bash vendors here</span>. It's one of our basic rules at BCF.

Of course, any of you are welcome to use the forum private message system to have private discussions about vendors, politics or whatever you like. But please, no <span style="text-decoration: underline">public</span> bashing.
Feel free to recommend vendors you are *happy* with however......if you recommend one vendor and say nothing about another, we can all figure it out. :wink:

I realize that many complaints about vendors are rooted in the honest intention of helping others to avoid pitfalls when repairing their cars. But as moderators, we'd prefer to avoid situations where the fault may be just a one-off fluke, partly the fault of the installer, or whatever.
These are the kind of determinations we simply don't want to get involved with.
It sort of becomes "he said, she said".
I know there are some poor quality parts out there. But there are also cases where parts are installed wrong. It may not always be the vendor's fault. As the old saying goes, <span style="font-style: italic">sometimes it's not the car....it's the loose nut behind the wheel.</span>
grin.gif


While I have your eyes: we'd ask that you try to avoid overly critical comments about e-Bay ads.
I know, I know....some of the stuff sold on e-Bay is horrible. I'd be the first to agree.
But I also know that in the past, sellers on e-Bay have complained that comments made on BCF about their cars were unfair.

Thanks
 

Morris

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I have had pretty good luck. They are much smaller vendors. Therefore they have the luxury to pay much closer attention to the quality of their products.

The timing chain I bought from spitbits had no master link.
 

jvandyke

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kellysguy said:
So, all this being said, if it was a safe practice, don't you think the manufactures would have done it from the start? After all, it SURE is ALLOT cheaper to buy bulk chain and cut to fit different engine models.

The "big three" would have been all over it.

It's probably far cheaper for GM to order 1,500,000 chains to a certain spec without the extra work/time/hassle of master links.
The guys who ran master links on their chains were racers too. They would certainly know quicker than I would if it were a bad idea. I don't have the first hand experience to say one way or the other beside I've been told by those with experience that it's fine.
 
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aeronca65t said:
There are no timing marks on a 1500 cam gear.My 1500 has raced with a master link chain for almost ten years now....no problems so far.

partly the fault of the installer, or whatever.
. As the old saying goes, <span style="font-style: italic">sometimes it's not the car....it's the loose nut behind the wheel.</span> :GThanks

My old one has marks and my BL manual says nothing about a dial indicator, but to line up the marks (even has purty pictures, both manuals I have do).

I assure you, I can screw up a crowbar with a rubber mallet, but a few things I can't do is:

1.) Shrink glass.

2.) Make a NEW w/c leak a few thousand miles later by merly clipping it on.

3.) Break a new motor mount with the same HAND pressure used to reinstall a 30 year old mount.( and Permetex #82 is doing a ~FAR~ better job of holding it together than the way it came here, and it hasn't even set properly yet. I'm performing a test in this aplication, I'll get back with you on the results. At this point, I feel I should be able to suspend 200# from it. That's ~FAR~ more than the 5ftlbs of finger pressure it took to "break" it.)



4.) Bring myself to use bulk industrial inferior chain when CLEARLY it wasn't designed that way.

5.) Use imaginary timing marks. ( I can, however; make new ones based off of the old marks, even though both sets of holes are timed differently and both will bolt up. It came with marks, the replacement should have them as well.)

I'm a certified A.S.E Master Tech and Parts Specialist. I know how to put them on and how they're supposed to be. ~TRUST ME~, it's not opperator error.

I'm suprised that you would use a mastered chain given that you race your car and your background. I am glad to hear you haven't had any problem....yet.

I am ~VERY~ suprised. ( I'm with ya on making chairs into headers though.)

I understand the "policy" you're speaking of (forgotten about it thought.) but clearly it's not a fluke, or a once happenstance occurence, but it a continued pattern that others have experienced as well.

While I will continue to abide by board policies, I'd like to say that if we continue to keep our mouths shut about quality, don't be suprised when it keeps getting worse....which it will. Especially if the only time we can open our mouths is when we expected to swallow more garbage that we're being sold when I'm already having to eat parts now.(who's to benifit the most from this "policy", certainly not the guy getting screwed.)

If we can't come together on this here, I can't imagine where we can. After all, I thought this was what this place was all about, us comming together to help one another. Even if that be we ~ALL~ are being sold inferior quality parts (or overpriced junk on ebay.)

Having said that, I now shall now respectfully retire...
 
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jvandyke The guys who ran master links on their chains were racers too. They would certainly know quicker than I would if it were a bad idea. I don't have the first hand experience to say one way or the other beside I've been told by those with experience that it's fine.[/quote said:
Sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but that don't mean...
 

RickB

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I think it's ok to say "I got this part from xxx and it's really crap" but not to say "xxx is crap because they sold me this part".

I could be wrong, and am sure someone will tell me so if I am... :wink:
 
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RickB said:
I think it's ok to say "I got this part from xxx and it's really crap" but not to say "xxx is crap because they sold me this part".

I could be wrong, and am sure someone will tell me so if I am... :wink:

Depends on who says it. :thumbsup:
 

jlaird

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Tony told me that VB did not have any tech folks they just procured and sold parts. Sometimes you gota, enough said.
 

DrEntropy

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Lotus 1600 twin-cam engines are master link single row. And nearly six feet long. Never had one come apart in DOZENS of engines, street or race. I can't speak to the ~quality~ of a particular supplier's chain, it ~could~ be something more suited to a Schwinn than a 1500 but having a master link wouldn't be an issue for me...
 
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DrEntropy said:
I can't speak to the ~quality~ of a particular supplier's chain, it ~could~ be something more suited to a Schwinn than a 1500

Given the latest issues I've had with quality, that's my thoughts exactly. It doesn't look up to par and I aint that brave. Didn't know about Lotus, but it still makes me nervious. Despite the fact I'm quick, unconventional short cut guy, I still don't like the thought. I guess ther's some things I just can't budge on. This would be one.





jlaird said:
Tony told me that VB did not have any tech folks they just procured and sold parts. Sometimes you gota, enough said.

This is true. I called them about a top question and they had no clue.
 

Basil

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Ok, time for me to step in here. In the rules, which EVRYONE HERE agreed to upon joining, we ask that you NOT engage in what sometimes (not always) amounts to vendor bashing. I am well aware that some people disagree with this policy and that's fine, but I have my reasons for this policy. However, I also understand that it is important for people to be able to share their experiences with vendors (both good and bad) with other forum members. Therefore, you will notice that I have re-opened my <span style="text-decoration: underline">Vendor and Product Review</span> forum (Actually I forgot I had temporarily closed it). In THAT forum, you can post your real-world experience with a vendor, whether it is good or bad. The only restriction there is that you keep to the FACTS of your exdperience. For example, you could say something like: "Vendor XXX sold me a widget and it was very poor quality. It broke when I took it out of the box, and when I called them for a refund, they would not honor the warrenty."

But you could not post: "Vendor XXX are a bunch of liars and cheats, and they only sell crap". In otherwords, you can rate the vendor (using topics ratings) and you can post the FACTS of your experience. The Vendor Review forum is not a normal open discussion form, but is instead a moderated forum which means all posts must be approved by the admnin before they become visible. This is simply to ensure that the latter kind of post doesn't get posted, but rather only posts that relate YOUR experiince in a factual manner.

You can also use the PM system (<span style="font-weight: bold">Private Message</span>) if you want to relate negative information about a vendor to other members. No, we don't monitor PMs (unless I have a real reason, like a court order :wink: ).
I apologize for not having the Vendor Review forum turned on, but this discussion was a reminder to me that I needed to turn it back on. Now that I've turned it back on, I'd appreciate if folks would use it to rate vendors (including the ones you like) and post your real-world experieices there.

Thanks,

Basil
 
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