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Value Premium for a Le Mans Kit-Equipped 100

Editor_Reid

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Speaking of Healey values (as we were in a different thread), I'd be interested in forum members' thoughts on the added value/price of a 100 versus a 100 with the Le Mans kit installed.

Recall that the kit consists primarily of:

• Twin 1 3/4-inch H6 SU carburetors.
• Aluminum intake manifolds.
• Carburetor cold air box and special air tube.
• High-lift camshaft.
• Distributor with modified automatic advance curve.
• Steel-faced cylinder head gasket.
• Valve springs, cups and seats; various gaskets and hardware.

Please also note that this kit did not include high-compression pistons or the louvered bonnet and leather bonnet strap associated with the 100M, although it is rare to find a Kit-equipped car without a louvered bonnet - seems that owners can't resist the urge to install one!

Now these kits could have been installed back in the day by the Donald Healey Motor Company or some other dealer, and they could have been installed by an owner or a mechanic.

Moreover, they can still be installed today, and many of the components are readily available.

I maintain that a 100 with the Kit installed way back when, with original parts, is at least more interesting than a 100 that has received these components more recently and probably includes some reproduction parts.

The problem in valuing them is that we're faced with overlapping continuum of when the Kit was installed, how much of it was installed, and how much of the kit is composed of original components versus modern reproduction parts. How can we attach any rational dollar values to cars that fall on all different parts of this three-dimensional matrix?

Two cars may be identical, but if one had the Kit installed in 1955 in Warwick by Donald Healey's company (and there are receipts to prove it) and the other had all of the same and original kit components installed last week in an owner's garage, what's the value difference?

Extra credit: Find the value of pi to the last digit. Explain your methodology in terms of transcendental number theory. :crazy:
 

why

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The underlying substance to the answer is no different than the one for the thread about threads being in the order they are for the slave cylinder,four score and seven years ago (oops wrong slaves), that is in a manner of speaking no different than Tazio Nuvolari's famous quote about Porsches: "If God wanted the engine in the rear he would not have put our eyes in the front of our heads" or if translated from Italian to Latin and then back into English, "pi are not square, pi are round." However, since it is in Italian, one could expect that it was referring to Pizza, therefore when integrated into the general theory of relativity, the only conclusion is "a difference that makes not difference is no difference"
Jay, '65 3000 ( if you are going faster than the speed of light by 3.14159% it could be considered a '61)
 

HealeyRick

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It's best not to think of these things, otherwise the whole belief system we have set up as classic car owners is likely to crumble. In the real world, shouldn't a car with the LeMans kit newly installed last week be worth more than the same car using the same worn out components from 60 yrs ago? Let's take it a step further. You could build your 100 into a 100M replica, with high compression pistons, louvered bonnet,etc., yet it would be worth a fraction of what a factory 100M would be worth. For all intents and purposes, they are the same car, except the boffins from Warwick didn't do the modifications. So the bottom line is I have no idea how to make sense of a value system that is really pretty arbitrary. At the end of the day, we can always take refuge in the useless maxim, "A car is worth what a buyer is willing to pay."
 

why

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"It's best not to think of these things" Never ever have more true and valuable words been spoken for those of us with the disease that draws us like moths to the flame of the objects of our desire. I am forever grateful Healey Rick.
P.S. Were you talking about cars or...?
 

TodE

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If you look at Barrett Jackson as a price point (not that BJ is real world) but, look it the difference between between a muscle car with a hemi that is all original and one that is a replica. Looks the same but the replica probably runs better and faster than the original one. However the original car will always bring more money! As the post before states "Its how bad you want the car. If somebody is biding against you and how much are you willing to spend on the car."

All that being said I am about to install my engine in my "Lemans" replica. Lemans spec engine, original Distributor, original carbs, louvered hood, leather strap, even optional 140 mph speedometer.

Over 3 years probably spent what a original "M" is going for today on the restoration!!
Go figure!!
 

Healey_Z

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Since value is what people are willing to pay, here is my opinion.

I would pay a premium (10-15%) for a full complete, operational Le Mans kit that was installed at the factory, at the point of original manufacture, with the documents to prove it.

I would not pay a premium (perhaps less than an original stock car) that used the Moss and other catalogs to replicate the Le Mans kit in the current day.
 

Healeysince59

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3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460
9550582231725359408128481117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566
9234603486104543266482133936072602491412737245870066063155881748815209209628292540917153643678925903600113305305488204665213841469
51941511609......... and a bunch more digits. I'd explain my methodology except I wouldn't understand it.

The quote, as I remember it is "Cornbread are square, Pi are round"

My 100, which has the "M" mods, mostly from Denis Welch, isn't worth much more than it would be stock IMHO but it sure is fun to drive (and wasn't that the original intention"?). I didn't do the louvered bonnet thing because I couldn't see that adding any "fun".

Marv J
 
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So what's the question?
 

Legal Bill

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The difference in value between a 100 and one with a factory M kit installed by Donald Healey Motors is $15K. The factory kit installed by the dealer or owner is worth $7K to $10K more regardless of the date of installation. A car converted with aftermarket replica parts is worth $2.5 to $5K more.

Thank you.

Bill
 

bighealeysource

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I would tend to agree with the guidelines Bill states above, particularly since he has been following resale values of all Healey's and specifically the recent factory 100M sales. If you take Geoff Healey's book where he stated there were over 1000 M type cars produced at Warwick including those modified by the factory but not built new as a 100 M, then take the 640 factory built M's as eventually determined by the file records,you end up with about 400 post factory modified 100-4's. So those would definitely be worth more but imagine just as hard to document those post production changes as doubt they would be on any Heritage Trust certificates. At least with the factory cars you have the Heritage certificate that states the car was supplied with a louvered hood. Bottom line, if you can prove it was modified by the factory after production as a standard BN1 and BN2, since both were modified, then that is a piece of history that can not be duplicated with new parts. If a factory 100M is now worth $100+, a stock BN2 maybe $50,000+, then the factory modified would fall in the middle maybe at $75,000 ?
Regards and now even I am confused,
Mike
 

judow

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All great responses. I have nothing to offer except to say Agatha is my pride and joy and interestingly has nothing to do with her being a Factory Certified M. Any Healey on a good day is better than no Healey at all.
 

Healey 100

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Le Mans kit: not worth much extra without the louvered hood. Hey, if you can't clearly SEE a feature you've added, it's kinda hard to market it.

A snazzy color, chrome wires, great paint and body work, and interesting stuffed animals might be worth more. The kit might make the car a bit livlier, but who knows that when you're selling it?

Pi is an irrational number: hence, it has no "last digit"
 
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Bill's numbers may come from some source that tracks sales but of course they are just an average and given all the various ways in which the Le Mans kit might have been added and what parts it might contain I think we are engaging in pointless speculation.

According to documents and receipts that came with my car the first owner added most dealer-supplied elements of the LeMans kit to the car in 1956-1957, including the larger carbs, manifolds, distributor and CAB but chose to use an Iskenderian cam along with Studebaker valves and Buick lifters which apparently came in a kit along with the cam from Iskenderian, this according to Ed I's son who told me this was a very popular speed add-on in the day. Of course that cam is long gone and the car now has a DW AL head with fast-road tune, Venolia pistons, Pouter rods, etc. etc.

So because of the 1957 Iskenderian (as opposed to BMC) cam was my car ever a LeMans and if so is it still?

In the final analysis a car is worth what a willing buyer is willing to pay to a willing seller and while some folks might place a premium upon a converted 100 other folks might be willing to pay more for one that is in stock trim.

As to the math question does anyone know what is the square root of the diameter of an igloo?
 

Keoke

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Improperly posted question. Poster assumed all the Igloos qre round.-----Keoke---- :devilgrin:
 
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Keoke--

Your response tells me two things:

1. You don't know anything about igloo architecture, and
2. You don't know the answer to the question.
 

nevets

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not sure about the diameter of an igloo but more importantly will a 100M fit in one? Eskimos need to store their Healeys in the winter too.
 

glemon

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Although it wasn't exaclty Reid's question (I don't think) I think one interesting issue would be the difference in value between a factory 100M and a car converted at the Donald Healey's shop on the Cape, both with proper documentation.

I think if I could wave a magic wand and have either car I would rather have the one touched by "the hand of Donald" or at least from the shop of Donald, the designer of the car, rather than the factory, but maybe I am in the minority.

Greg
 
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Editor_Reid

Editor_Reid

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glemon said:
Although it wasn't exactly Reid's question (I don't think) I think one interesting issue would be the difference in value between a factory 100M and a car converted at the Donald Healey's shop on the Cape, both with proper documentation.

I think if I could wave a magic wand and have either car I would rather have the one touched by "the hand of Donald" or at least from the shop of Donald, the designer of the car, rather than the factory, but maybe I am in the minority.

Greg

Greg,

Good news. ALL 640 of the "factory 100M" cars were modified at the Donald Healey Motor Company. Austin shipped them there to receive the parts that made them 100M models. ALL 640 100M cars were touched by the guys at The Cape in Warwick.
 
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