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Long time over due.


Car culture meets car crusher as squeeze put on street racing
https://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20070620-1327-ca-crushedhotrods.html



By Greg Risling
ASSOCIATED PRESS

1:27 p.m. June 20, 2007

RIALTO – Charles Hoang winced when the whoosh went out of the tires. Daniel Maldonado took pictures with a digital camera as glass exploded and rained down to the ground.
The two teens didn't know each other but they shared a common grief standing near each other under the sweltering sun Wednesday. They both watched helplessly as the cars they had so meticulously souped up and tricked out were crushed and turned into metal pancakes as part of a crackdown on illegal street racing in Southern California.



Advertisement “That's my heart, my dream,” said a visibly upset Hoang, 18, of Chino, who was surrounded by friends as his 1998 Acura Integra was put into a compactor. “That's my girlfriend, the love of my life. The cops can crush my car, but they can't crush my memories.”
Six vehicles were destroyed at an auto graveyard as local law enforcement ramped up enforcement against illegal street racing, which is responsible for or suspected in 13 deaths in Southern California since March.

The thrill-seeking, adrenaline-pumping activity is rampant in Riverside and San Bernardino counties east of Los Angeles where rows of tract homes line wide streets ideal for racing. Nearly 1,000 people have been arrested for investigation of street racing activities over the past two years in San Bernardino County alone. That includes spectators as well as drivers.

Although police said they have managed to reduce illegal racing and related fatal collisions, they are well aware the underground hobby still thrives.

“We are making a dent,” said Ontario police Cpl. Jeff Higbee. “But it's summertime and ... we expect to see more activity.”

Hoang said he was caught late last year racing his prized car on which he spent at least $10,000 to get into top shape. The 350-horsepower engine topped out at 160 mph, Hoang said, swearing it could beat a Corvette or even a Ferrari.

When police popped open the hood, Hoang said, they found a stolen transmission. Hoang flashed a receipt for the transmission he bought from his father who runs an auto shop and doubted the item was hot.

“Everything on that car was practically brand new,” Hoang said as he watched his car get moved to auto death row. “They should take out the stuff that matters, auction it off, and give the money to charity.”

Because racers put heavy stress on their vehicles, they often burn out or blow up parts. Higbee said the need for the expensive parts has created a “theft mill” where additional cars – usually Hondas or Acuras – are stolen and stripped of the necessary replacements.

Most of the cars police examine are illegally modified. Sergio Zavala, 18, was pulled over in his 1993 yellow Honda Civic for a broken tail light in December. He had purchased a B-20 Vtech engine with a double-overhead cam a couple months before, and after a police investigation, was told it was stolen.

Zavala, who admits he's been involved in street racing, estimates he and his mother spent about $10,000 to make improvements to his car.

After watching his Civic demolished, Zavala is left without a car as he plans to attend a fire academy in the fall.

“It's heartbreaking to see this,” said Zavala, who graduated from high school last year. “This is where all my time and money went.”

Maldonado also said he put plenty of time and effort working on his 1992 black Honda Civic. He was stopped in November by police in what Higbee described as an area where racers gather.

The 18-year-old mechanic said a vehicle identification sticker apparently fell off and without it, police suspected some of the parts were stolen. Maldonado stood several feet away from his car as it was pounded into a heap of metal.

Maldonado said he has taken the advice of police – by racing legally on one of several race courses around Southern California. For the money spent in fines and other penalties – on average about $5,000 for illegally modified cars – Higbee said street racers could compete about 250 times a year at a legitimate track.

“If you have to race, take it to a legal venue,” Higbee said. “But as long as they keep racing illegally, we keep crushing their cars.”

All three men who saw their vehicles destroyed accused the police of auto profiling. They said they target only Hondas and Acuras, hoping to find something. Maldonado said he's driven a 1989 Toyota Supra but never been stopped.

They also believe illegal street racing will continue to prosper across the region.

“It will never go away,” Maldonado said. “If it's in your heart, you will continue to do it until you can't anymore.”


Video

https://video.knbc.com/player/?id=121911
 
Well, hammerin' the mooks for street racing is fine with me. Cost them money and time to deal with it.
BUT: I have some real issues with the idea of confiscation and destruction of PRIVATE PROPERTY. If it's got stolen components, strip it. Make the kids pay for all expenses. Deal with it using curtailment of freedom (JAIL time) and fines.

This has some *nasty* connotations, folks. Nasty.
 
I agree with Doc, and I used to be a cop....... With the kid who was stopped for a broken tail light, that is one heck of a draconian punishment.

If there are stolen parts, then these parts belong to the legitimate owner's insurance company. Returned to them, they could at least recoup some of their payout by selling the parts. Not that I usually have any sympathy for insurance companies, by the way /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] ...estimates he and his mother spent about $10,000 to make improvements to his car.[/QUOTE]

Gee, Mom, I've some bad news...

Wish I'd been there then....
 
I'd like James' (lawguy) take on this. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
I'm no expert in California law, but based on general principle (most states' laws are similar) I'm am here to tell you, no one's car got crushed for a missing ID sticker or a broken tail light. Those are just the things that led to the discovery of greater violations. Before a car is destroyed (or forfeited, the destroyed) it has to be proven by (at least) a preponderance of the evidence that the car was involved in, used in furtherance of or otherwise connected to a felony.

Granted, there are problems with forfeiture laws. I am not a big fan of the "preponderance of the evidence" standard. It seems that if crime is involved, it should be "beyond a reasonable doubt." However, states have carefully written their laws to be civil in nature, not criminal, but if it walks like a duck.... Also, there should be an "innocent owner" defense (no forfeiture if the owner did not know someone else was using the car in a crime). Some states have that, but the U.S. Supreme Court has found that states need not have such a defense.

I cannot think of a better deterrant, though.
 
More info on it

https://www.pe.com/localnews/publicsa...1.3e16c84.html


Police's new stance on street racing -- crush it


Download story podcast

11:00 PM PST on Wednesday, February 28, 2007

By PAUL LAROCCO
The Press-Enterprise

Video: Impounded illegal street race cars crushed

RIALTO - In a scrap yard stacked with wreckage, the two old Hondas crushed to the size of step stools Wednesday were unexceptional.
Story continues below
Stan Lim / The Press-Enterprise
A Honda Civic is taken to a machine to be crushed as part of a police effort aimed at reducing illegal street racing.

But it wasn't their condition that brought more than a dozen police officers out to watch. The two mid-1990s Civics destroyed at Rialto's Ecology Auto Parts were symbolic of a heightened multi-agency effort aimed at reducing illegal street racing.

As the first two cars destroyed pursuant to a court order, they represented a new approach in enforcement.

From Ontario to Riverside -- where last week a teen died as a result of what police called a street race -- officials are destroying rather than returning cars that are proven to have stolen engines and transmissions.
Story continues below
Two Honda Civics, seized after traffic stops in August, are crushed at Ecology Auto Parts in Rialto on Wednesday. The two cars were impounded and were destroyed after a court order.

Officers would discover stolen parts in street racing vehicles, confiscate the parts, but eventually release the vehicle. Later, officers would discover the car back in street races with new stolen engines or transmissions, said Ontario police Cpl. Jeff Higbee, who coordinates the San Bernardino County Regional Street Racing Task Force.

"The whole reason is so we just don't recycle these cars back into the auto-theft culture," Higbee said about the crushing. "We realize this is a big problem."

The California vehicle code allows police agencies to destroy cars even if only one part is determined stolen. The two Hondas put on display Wednesday were seized after traffic stops in August. Higbee said the owners were not arrested because it could not be proved they knew the parts in their car were stolen.
 
lawguy said:
...I'm am here to tell you, no one's car got crushed for a missing ID sticker or a broken tail light...Before a car is destroyed (or forfeited, the destroyed) it has to be proven by (at least) a preponderance of the evidence that the car was involved in, used in furtherance of or otherwise connected to a felony.
Not aware of the war on drugs? Where the burden of proof shifts to you. They don't have to prove you're guilty, you have to prove your innocent.

Expanding on that, one of the major cities here takes driving down certain streets at certain times as prima facia proof of your crime. You forfet your car immediately for the city to do with it as they wish.

If you do manage to eventually prove yourself innocent in either of the above scenarios I mentioned, you do not get your property back, because it is long gone. And, charmingly, the beloved governments have both determined they are not legally obligated to return said items to you, nor to compensate you for their fair value.
 
doc, i like what the cops are doing, the pre-existing laws did nothing to deter these people from killing hundreds of innocent individuals its sending out a very clear message to those who might consider continuing racing on the streets, and that is, race illegally = lose the car and $10000.00 + sounds like a effective and beneficial deterrent to me, also these people have a choice they can race in organized events that have all the safety issues pretty well covered. ive personally lost four friends in street races belive me that will change ones perspective about what the cops are doing they where all young kids one 17 year old, two 18 years, old and one 23 years old on a norton scrambler oh ya he was a cop! id let em come over to my place and crush all my cars if ya could bring just one of em back, nah do what they have to do to stop this, ever see the footage of the 5 year old that was crushed to death when a car slammed into a crowed of people or the car that killed the child in its baby carriage? what blows my mind is how come the cops did nothing to stop a 1000 h.p. dragster from killing what was it 7 people here recently, look bottom line ya wanna race? then race at the track...or loose your junk-period.
 
doc, i like what the cops are doing, the pre-existing laws did nothing to deter these people from killing hundreds of innocent individuals its sending out a very clear message to those who might consider continuing racing on the streets, and that is, race illegally = lose the car and $10000.00 + sounds like an effective and beneficial deterrent to me, also these people have a choice they can race in organized events that have all the safety issues pretty well covered. ive personally lost four friends in street races belive me that will change ones perspective about what the cops are doing they where all young kids one 17 year old, two 18 years, old and one 23 years old on a norton scrambler oh ya he was a cop! id let em come over to my place and crush all my cars if ya could bring just one of em back, nah do what they have to do to stop this, ever see the footage of the 5 year old that was crushed to death when a car slammed into a crowed of people or the car that killed the child in its baby carriage? what blows my mind is how come the cops did nothing to stop a 1000 h.p. dragster from killing what was it 7 people here recently, look bottom line ya wanna race? then race at the track...or loose your junk-period. geeesh i thought me of all people would never say this..but i sound like a cop.
 
Hello all,

my feeling is that there is no justification whatsoever to destroy property. This feeling is based on the ideal that we use up too many resources as it is. I do think that we are extremely extravagant in disposing of items that took time, energy and material to create and even though the vandalised car can be partly recyled this takes more energy to do so.

Whatever the alleged crimes that have been committed, destroying the owners property should also be a criminal offence. I certainly do not believe all the global warming causes that are being forced upon us are true but I do strongly believe that we should not be wasteful, which this action most certainly is.

Alec
 
i'm not sure i agree here. these vehicles weren't seized as having raced. they were seized after traffic stops. they were impounded after they were found to have stolen parts in them. now jailing the owners for receiving stolen goods is one thing, but crushing the parts of the car that weren't stolen is completely different.

if i go to the junkyard and buy a gearbox for my TR, install it and it subsequently turns out to be stolen should I lose my car and have to watch it be crushed?

'oh but this is different' i hear you cry. well it isn't. they were driving down the road and were pulled over by the cops on a traffic stop. they weren't racing...

by all means impose draconian penalties on those caught committing the crime. it seems wrong to do it just because you are *suspected* of it. thin end of the wedge i say.
 
piman, i agree, to bad all the people that have been needlessly killed will ever get to enjoy our wonderful "ozone free " environment! tell that to the loved ones of the dead im sure thell understand completely. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif
 
Ant'ny, I don't care a whit about whether or not these boiRacer mooks lose their rides to a crusher. Matter of fact, I'd be harder on 'em than just reducing the CAR to a waffle. The first article being vague about the way in which these vehicles were chosen to be destroyed was what put up a flag in my mind. I don't street race. But I HAVE been known to leave from a stop at a traffic light in a "spirited manner" now and again. No tire spinning, no smoke, up to the legal limit and level out... but it would be easily misinterpreted as "racing" in the opinion of an officer with an agenda. The Elan will reach 60 in just over 5 seconds with little drama or danger. Just OBVIOUSLY quick.

I've had a circumstance merging onto an Interstate nearly cost me a suspension because an officer interpreted what occurred as criminal on my part. Nothing of the sort happened but he got angry when I tried to detail the event and cited me for speeding & reckless driving. I ~WAS~ speeding. Along with EVERY OTHER CAR there, so as not to be RUN OVER trying to merge... did it with with room to spare. The +2 is about 42" tall, I merged into traffic ahead of a Ford LTD wagon driven by an old guy who couldn't see over the wheel. I accelerated to traffic speed to merge one more lane left and as I EMERGED from what HE thought was his front bumper, he went panic mode and put the clamps on HARD. The cruiser was behind *him* and the cop nearly slammed the wagon (he likely was at the same illegal speed AND following too closely), and it was MIA CULPA. I took it to a judge with a lawyer and was exonerated BUT it could be VERY different with what the first California story related.

Do I have stolen equipment in my cars? NO. But would a deputy know what he's even lookin' at?!? NO again. I don't like forfeiture laws. They're already out of hand, IMO.
 
BTW: You're STUTTERIN' /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif
 
foxtrapper said:
lawguy said:
...I'm am here to tell you, no one's car got crushed for a missing ID sticker or a broken tail light...Before a car is destroyed (or forfeited, the destroyed) it has to be proven by (at least) a preponderance of the evidence that the car was involved in, used in furtherance of or otherwise connected to a felony.
Not aware of the war on drugs? Where the burden of proof shifts to you. They don't have to prove you're guilty, you have to prove your innocent.

Expanding on that, one of the major cities here takes driving down certain streets at certain times as prima facia proof of your crime. You forfet your car immediately for the city to do with it as they wish.

If you do manage to eventually prove yourself innocent in either of the above scenarios I mentioned, you do not get your property back, because it is long gone. And, charmingly, the beloved governments have both determined they are not legally obligated to return said items to you, nor to compensate you for their fair value.

Impounding and forfeiture are not the same thing. Forfeiture, the permanent deprivation of the property, requires the government to carry its burden of proof. That has not changed. granted, "preponderance of the evidence" is not the highest of standards.

As for driving down certain streets as proof of anything- they may do attempt it, but that, without more, will not constitute reasoable suspicion or probable cause, let alone a preponderance of the evidence.

I've never played a lawyer on TV- but I play one daily in real life. I don't deal in rumor, opinion or uninformed media accounts. I deal in the law.
 
The real problem is these "kids", and I use the term loosely,
don't have a venue in the area to learn how to drive a car
at 10 10ths, so who can we blame for that??

SteveL
 
It all just sounds like another sliding step down that long, slippery slope. Street racing may be abhorrent, but the penalties imposed cannot be arbitrary or unjust. A repeat offender caught with "hot" parts on his car should be held accountable for said hot parts. If he is a repeat street-racing offender then take his license away or put him away so that ANYTIME he drives he is in violation or so that he never drives. What crime did the car commit to have to be "put down"?
 
"They Shoot Porsches, Don't They?"

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 
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