TR2/3/3A TR3 Pre-Buy Tomorrow - what to look for

[GBRandy]

So I am going to go look at a 1959 TR3 tomorrow morning.

22 year old frame off restoration. In "perfect" shape. Owner did the restoration and has owned it since with very few miles and indoor, heated storage. Says He isn't using it and wants to sell for more space and other toys.

Says there is a shimmy in the car at 65 MPH. It has some requisite oil leaks but is otherwise sound and in excellent shape with zero rust.

Engine was rebuilt at the time of the restoration and the head was redone with no-lead seals and was shaved for slightly higher compression. Pretty sure the engine & tranny are original.

He is asking $20,000.

Comments, suggestions and advice always welcome.

Randy

 

[TR4]

From your description, sounds to be priced right. The test drive should hopefully provide you with a feeling of whether or not you can get that shimmy fixed. Ask about the wheels, if wires, have they been trued and balanced lately? Has the car been treated to an alignment? Wouldn't hurt to lift each corner to test the bearings.

 

[PeterK]

Well the TR3 head didn't have valve seals. Maybe he meant to say the he used hardened exhaust valve seats (for unleaded gas).

Shimmy could be wheel balance, drive shaft balance, silent-blocs, tie-rod ends, bad tire?

For $20K it should be nice. Take photos and let's see if it is.

 

[GBRandy]

Oh yes. Sorry. Valve seats....my bad there.

Not sure if that head was shaved to increase compression or correct an overheated engine symptom. No offering was made as to why.

The car has steel wheels and he said he bubble balanced them with no luck. Tried to do a spin balance on the car but couldn't get the equipment to attach correctly to the car to do it.

What is a "silent bloc"?

Photos tomorrow night...

 

[TR3driver]

What is a "silent bloc"?

In this case, he is referring to the joints between the center steering link, and the Pitman/idler arms. The term is actually a brand name I believe, that refers to a center steel pin (or sleeve) bonded to rubber which in turn is bonded to an outer sleeve. The TR2-3 use these to couple the center link to the arms, instead of the more common ball joints.

The originals actually held up quite well, but like so many parts on our cars, some of the reproductions don't last much longer than it takes to install them. Several vendors offer improved replacements made of Delrin instead of rubber.

 

[luke44]

Just out of interest Randy what is the s/n?

 

[NutmegCT]

Randy - one other thing about the "shimmy" at speed. It can also be caused by bent steel wheels. I could write reams about my own experience. Especially if the steels are bent at the center (hub), there's not much that can be done. You keep the originals for "originality", but buy new wheels to be able to enjoy driving it.

Good luck to you.
Tom

 

[Don Elliott]

Sounds to me that the steel wheels are causing the vibration, but if it's shimmy, I'd say it's the silent blocs, idler arm and/or other ball joints etc. Maybe it's slop in the steering box adjusting pin. Tom has some nice alloy wheels on his TR3A that resolved his wheel problems. Was it shimmy or vibration Tom ?

My 1958 TR3A still has steel wheels. I run the best four wheels on the car - out of 10 wheels that I have collected and tested to find the best four. Of those four, the two better ones are on the front and it runs smooth.

I'm using 165-15 Vredesteins

 

[TR3driver]

Randy - one other thing about the "shimmy" at speed. It can also be caused by bent steel wheels.

Or by hubs that are not true. Both of the front hubs from TS39781LO had significant runout at the wheel mounting flange, plus balance issues. The new rotors also had balance issues.
https://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh260/TR3driver/Front%20hub%20runout/

Steel wheels can, in theory, be straightened. Eg, https://mywheelrepair.com/repair.htm
However, the TR wheels sometimes crack in the center web, and being bent and then straightened is likely to aggravate the tendency to crack. Some vintage racers have gone as far as welding in reinforcement for the web.

 

[vivdownunder]

Providing the front wheel bearings are adjusted correctly, a simple home test for wheel distortion can be made by raising a wheel and spinning it. Hold a screwdriver on a block of wood so it's close to the edge of the rim and you'll see any runout.

Viv.

 

[GBRandy]

I went. I saw. I left.

The car looked good from a distance. Some things I noticed:
There seemed to be fiberglass edges on the outer fenders. He said the fenders were replaced with all fiberglass versions from Victoria British in 1988. Never heard of all fiberglass fenders before.

The paint had some of those classic Corvette paint cracks on the fenders.
The rocker panels had screws in them where they attached to the sills underneath.
There was no seam in the rockers where the door closes.
The engine compartment was painted flat black (car was red)
the center instrument cluster was made of wood as was the glove box door and both were cracking.
The car ran extremely rich despite having the choke full in. Backfired a bit before starting as well.
The car had an alternator swapped in....no generator available.
Several small chips & dings in the paint.

I was told this has the original engine & transmission
The ID plate was new and stamped TTS52956L (yes TTS....)
The Engine was TS64098E

The Title had a different number TS57983....or something like that...I didn't write it down. That did not mach either of the body ID tags either.

I am going to pass. For me, $20k it should at last have proper body panels and less bondo than what was presented by the rocker panel seams being covered up in the rear. Having the engine bay the proper color is also a deal breaker.

Anyone interested, the link is here: https://madison.craigslist.org/cto/1651731312.html

 

[angelfj1]

Gee! What a disappointment. For $20K I was expecting something exceptional.

 

[mrv8q]

There's a nice-looking TR3B in the classifieds...

 

[TR3driver]

For me, $20k it should at last have proper body panels and less bondo than what was presented by the rocker panel seams being covered up in the rear.

Not to mention a clear title!

You did good to walk away.

 

[luke44]

I went. I saw. I left.

Hi Randy - I don't want to discourage you, but your experience sounds oh so familair. I spent a full year (2009) of serious look time before I found my car. During that year I flew to Kansas City, Chicago, San Diego, Oakland, and Portland as well as drove to see a number of Northeast cars. In the end, a second trip to San Diego and now finally my project is underway. I'm gonna build it because I couldn't find it finished. $20k will get you a nice car but it will need work. People who use the terms "perfect" car or "restored" car means nothing - people just don't know what these words mean. I don't think they mean to decieve, they just don't get it.

Many many cars will have blacked out engine bays. Drives me crazy as my goal is a top shelf concours car, but if you can think to plan an upgrade where you yank the engine and detail the engine bay, you may find a few candidates that are sound otherwise, and maybe need a few things. Net result can be a real nice clean driver. There was a recent white eBay car from CA that fits this description for example.

I tried everything possible to maket the economics of "project cars" work. But these typically have all sorts of action if priced at $4000 - $6000 or even up to $10k. Reality for me though was they could be free and the economics don't work for a concours project if you plan to go down to bare frame and start over - at least if you ever want to get your $$ out of the car down the road.

If you describe the goal of the car you are looking for, I know a lot of the inventory out there. Some of the cars coming up recently were also available last fall. You may need to be prepared to travel to see them though.

 

[GBRandy]

Yes. That TR3B in the classifieds is tempting. Am I to vain in wanting a red or black TR3 instead of white?

I may be stuck on the path Luke suggests. Building a car up to my standards may be the only way to get what I want. And, yes, that may mean having more invested in it than it may be worth. I'll keep looking, but my budget has gone from $10,000 to $15,0000 to $20,000 and I am not finding what I want.

At some point I may be better served to buy a $5000 car and and hand it off for restoration.

I do not intend to sell it anytime soon and perhaps after the dust settles and some time passes the market price will catch up to the investment in the car and everything works out.

The search continues.

 

[prb51]

Keep looking, they are out there.
You will not get perfection for 20k but a very very good driver with solid panels and drive train where everything works and nothing should need doing unless you wanted to upgrade cosmetically.
Two tone (eng bay) cars and home made patch panels or, God forbid, fiberglass replacement wings put the car way down the money list.
Take a note and just ask all of these questions directly before your next sortee.

 

[GBRandy]

I didn't know they made fiberglass fenders.....are they still available?

If they were installed correctly, I would think they would be hard to detect. I caught it only because the edges looked like, well, fiberglass. Had someone taken the time to sand, prep & paint the edges I would have never known.

 

[TR4nut]

Yep, fiberglass fenders have been around - not sure who or if they are marketed now, but I know the race crowd definitely has used them before.

 

[TR3driver]

I didn't know they made fiberglass fenders.....are they still available?

For a price: https://www.revingtontr.com/shop/Collecti...TR3&CID=177

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]If they were installed correctly, I would think they would be hard to detect. [/QUOTE]I had glass rear fenders on TS39781LO. Looked OK from a distance, but wouldn't fool anyone close up. Among other problems, the captive nuts were metric, so I couldn't use the proper button head bolts in the drip rail. And they quickly developed stress cracks in the paint from vibration.