TR2/3/3A TR3 Fuel Pump Gasket

[jsneddon]

For starters you should know that this car has been sitting since 1991. I finally am at a point where I am working on getting it back on the road.

I wasn't getting any fuel to the carbs so I flushed out my gas tank and cleared a major blockage in the fuel line just past the tank. Everything started up and ran well enough to get around the block. So then I rebuilt the carbs and when I went to start it back up I wasn't getting fuel to the carbs again.

I had tried starting it a couple of years ago and found I wasn't getting any fuel so I bought a new pump from moss and put it on with no sucess and life got in the way again and it just sat (obviously if I had spent more time on it I would have found the blockage from the tank).

When I pulled off the pump bowl yesterday I found that the cork gasket for the bowl had completely disentegrated. I mean completely... there was nothing left of the gasket bigger than a grain of sand and it had nicely covered the screen completly.

I dug out the old fuel pump (an original with the nifty priming lever) and found that it had a nice thick rubber gasket instead of cork. But this gasket has spent the last 40 years getting as hard as a rock. I put it on for grins but since it doesn't compress anymore it just leaks like a sieve.

So...

I see moss has a "fuel pump rebuild kit" for 20 bucks but it doesn't explain just what you get.

I'm not too thrilled with the cork seeing what happened to this one after only 2 years.

Does anyone have a source for the rubber gasket?

Has anyone had this kind of problem with the cork on these new remanufactured (and I feel inferior) pumps?

Is there anything special about this cork or could I just cut myself a new one out of the standard sheet of gasket cork that I've got from Pep Boys?

Thanks.

 

[sammyb]

First of all, the replacement fuel pumps are garbage, and if it's possible to rebuild the original, do so.

As for the cork gasket, I don't believe there's anything special to it, other than the fact that it meets the standards of British Leyland in the early 70s. (That's a joke...the President of one of the gasket suppliers to BL went to jail for fraud when it was learned his company simply used sawdust or garbage to make gaskets which were supposed to be cork or rubber.)

 

[JFS]

Sam's got it right. I used a replacement pump -- I think it was made in Canada-- that had the arm made of three pieces of stamped metal riveted together instead of the original one-piece arm. The riveted arm fell apart while I was driving; fortunately, the parts did not drop down to cause any damage. I now use a Facet electronic pump. If originality is a concern, I would agree that rebuilding the original is the way to go.

 

[jsneddon]

Mine has the Proud to be Canadian stamp on the top too.... it really is a piece of s... I'm hoping that my original is OK since I replaced it before discovering the fuel line blockage.

Currently the original is back on the car and it isn't pumping as I furiously pump the primer but I'm assuming that this is due to the lack of any sort of seal whatsoever on the bowl and the large amounts of gas pouring into the driveway at the same time I'm trying to pump it.

at least I know my line is DEFINATELY clear now.

I guess I'll try cutting a new gasket by hand for grins and see if it helps.

I just hate the thought of giving Moss 20 bucks for another piece of crap cork.

What I really need is to turn the corner this afternoon and discover a magic "Gaskets-R-Us" store I never noticed before and browse through aisles and aisles of various assorted rubber thingies.

Yes... it doesn't take much to entertain me.

 

[Banjo]

Your local parts store sells rolls of gasket material.You should be able to find cork-rubber or rubber-fiber types. Use the old rubber gasket as a pattern and trace it on the new material, then just cut it out with scissors or a razor knife.
I know you said the line is clear, but if it clogged once, chances are good for more gunk to get in. I've seen that problem plague many old triumphs.

 

[sp53]

Hi I recently bought a kit from Moss and think the gasket was rubber. You probably need a new diaphragm in the pump anyway. I had this really cool old guy about 85 help me understand the old AC pump. He maintained and I have heard it from others that the pumps are extremely durable and last for many, many years. Anyways, some of the early versions will not let you replace the two little valves in the top without a great deal of ingenuity. But old Charley said not too worry that just replacing the diaphragm is usually all one needs. On later pumps the top valves are held in a couple of screws and it is probably not such big deal to replace them. Anyways there was a guy from Milwaukee; I think who used to rebuild them form 80 bucks. He was on VTR, I think, maybe even eBay.

George

 

[Geo Hahn]

I use cork w/o problem but then in regular use it doesn't dry out. Moss sells the rubber sediment bowl gasket for a $1.55, p/n 031-729 if you like the 'rubber' version better:

https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/SearchResults.aspx?SearchText=031-729

Yes, the check valves were sort of peened in place on some pumps, held with a small plate that was secured with a screw on others. Never had them fail but have had them drop out (the dreaded Canadian pump) also had the pump shaft slip out (isn't held with circlips on the repro pumps). Oddly, I have never had a diaphram fail -- they do seem to be quite durable.

 

[jsneddon]

Thanks Geo....

I guess I should read their page a little before I go shooting off my mouth. I didn't see it in the picture and didn't spend time looking at the descriptions after I saw the kit.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll make a cork one and put the rubber on my list of little stuff to order next time I need something major.

 

[SeanTR3]

This is the perfect time for this post. I've been thinking about the fuel pump problem all winter.

On the TR3A I replaced the sediment bowl gasket last year, but the new cork gasket never sealed well so I am glad to hear there is a rubber one available.

After reading this thread I was curious about the type of fuel pump on the car since my Father mentioned that he had replaced it at some point. It turns out that we have one original and one made in Canada pump. I am planning to order the rebuild kit for the original.

The reason for my thoughts on this came after reading through another post that described the engine cutting out as the revs rose in normal driving. Last Fall the TR3A would rev to about 2500rpm and then cut out. It would come back to life in a second or two later, but always exhibited this problem. The explanation that the carb is not getting enough fuel makes sense and I think the fuel pump needs to be rebuilt as it leaks and seems to allow fuel to push through it at all times. For example, when I replaced the sediment bowl gasket the 6 gallons or so of gas in the tank ran down the line and spilled out until I got wise and installed a motorcycle fuel shutoff valve in the rubber fuel line before the sediment bowl. I thought the fuel pump might hold back the flow of fuel unless the carbs were providing some suction. It is not fun to work with gas spilling out onto the floor and I didn't have a pan big enough to hold 5+ gallons.

 

[Banjo]

I always thought those sediment bowls would make cool, car themed, shot glasses. I'd get new ones of course, I'm not that hard core. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif

 

[sammyb]

[ QUOTE ]
I had this really cool old guy about 85 help me understand the old AC pump. George

[/ QUOTE ]

George, this wouldn't happen to be the fellow who works for All-Foreign in downtown Olympia? He sold and serviced Triumphs new in Santa Rosa, CA, which is where my car is from -- he looked at the car (and its CA plates, and when I told him it was originally a wine-country car, he told me he sold it!)

He now works on all things British and European. Funny old guy, and knowledgeable as heck!

Sorry to hijack the topic!

 

[jsneddon]

just out of curiosity... what exactly comes with the rebuild kit? the moss manual says it doesn't include the diaphragm spring. Does it come with a diaphragm? I actually have 2 orignal pumps and I took one apart and there doesn't seem to be much to it.

 

[txtr3]

[ QUOTE ]
just out of curiosity... what exactly comes with the rebuild kit?

[/ QUOTE ]

I rebuilt mine a couple years ago, using the Moss kit. I can't remember all the details of what was included, but there was definitely a diaphragm. I think there was a rubber gasket for the sediment bowl, but I can't remember for sure (so many other things I've had to work on since then). It also included the valves.

 

[Geo Hahn]

[ QUOTE ]
...the new cork gasket never sealed well so I am glad to hear there is a rubber one available.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your problem may be that the portion of the casting that forms the 'lid' of the sediment bowl is distorted from over-tightening. It is pretty soft metal and will bow slightly if the thumb-screw is really tight. I have hammered this back to flat by gently hitting each 'wing' of the lid using a hammer and block of wood. Can't recall exactly where I supported it to get the result but should be obvious once you look at it. Offer up the bowl to the lid w/o a gasket in place and see if you can rock it side to side against the lid -- that would indicate it is bowed and no gasket is going to seal well.

[ QUOTE ]
...It turns out that we have one original and one made in Canada pump. I am planning to order the rebuild kit for the original...

[/ QUOTE ]

The only problems I have had with the Canadian pump have been mechanical, not the diaphram. If the diaphram is shot on your original pump you might swap the Canadian diaphram into it. There is nothing complex about 'rebuilding' these, just six screws and a twist of the diaphram assembly is it.

[ QUOTE ]
...when I replaced the sediment bowl gasket the 6 gallons or so of gas in the tank ran down the line and spilled out... I thought the fuel pump might hold back the flow of fuel...

[/ QUOTE ]

Once disconnected it is all gravity and the tank will empty (as you discovered). Harbor Freight sells a nice little clamping plier for pinch fuel & brake lines closed - I always carry a couple. Easy to test the pump with one of those combination vacuum/fuel pressure gauges available at all auto supply stores (you will need a Tee fitting and some extra 1/4" fuel line). The pump has to produce so little pressure to feed the SUs (min 1.5 psi I think) that I wuld suspect your problem is elsewhere, but certainly test the pump to be sure.

 

[Geo Hahn]

[ QUOTE ]
just out of curiosity... what exactly comes with the rebuild kit? the moss manual says it doesn't include the diaphragm spring...

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you usually get the diaphragm assembly, 2 check valves and the sediment bowl gasket. Main thing is the diaphram with the metal discs and shaft assembled to it.

Moss catalog indicates it does not include the diaphragm shaft seal -- this part is NLA and you don't really need it. If your pump still has one then reuse it but AFAIK it really isn't important.

 

[jsneddon]

Thanks for everything guys!

I definately don't like the look of the lever arm on the canadian pump. Somehow I got it in my head that the diaphragm was the part that was no longer available.

Between the 2 original and 1 new pump I'm sure I'll be able to cobble together one decent orignal.

It will be nice to have the priming lever back - you sure don't know how much you miss it until it's gone.

Now if I had the little floaty pins from my dad's MGTD carbs so that you don't have to pull the cover off the float to see if it is full.... i'd be in fuel supply heaven!

 

[sp53]

Hi Sam sorry I did not get back sooner. No, I do not think so; this guy owned a carburetor shop in south Tacoma. He fell down a couple of years ago and broke his hip or the hip broke and he fell. Anyways, he helped me on a couple of things I could not figure out. Cool old guy.

Regards George

 

[mrv8q]

FWIW, the first thing I did to revive my long-dormant 3A was to order a rebuild kit from a guy on eBay: County brand # RAEU 2760X. It had everything I needed in the kit, rubber gaskets, etc., all but the spring... for $18.75 as I recall. I also dipped the whole disassembled F.P. in a parts bath, and it turned out very nice and clean... all the easier to spot future leaks. Keeping the original spring lever pump was great, too!

 

[sp53]

Last week I got looking at my fuel pump stuff and remember that the new kits did not come with the oil seal. I am guessing that the new diaphragms are not using one. What I am thinking is that the after market kits might figure the oil seal unnecessary because they do not even have the metal retainer for the seal built into the diaphragm shaft. Does anybody have any input on that? Perhaps the oil is meant to be retained by the diaphragm.
George

 

[Geo Hahn]

AFAIK the seal is know longer considered necessary. It may be that modern diaphragms are made of sterner stuff and not bothered by what oil may reach them.

Seems I head of an alternative source for that seal... might have been a Land Rover part.