TR2/3/3A TR3 Bent Frame

[gsalt57tr3]

I knew there was an issue when I bought the car.

She pulls to the left. She's a TR3 with a TR3a front apron. The gap between the bonnet and the left wing widens as you move towards the front of the car.

Yesterday I faced the truth, I have a bent frame. It is bent just behind the front tower on the left side.

What successes/failures have people had in straightening thier frames? How extensive is the tearing down of the car to get to the frame to straighten it?

After straightening, will it need to be strengthened? Anyone have any insight here?

 

[frankenstang57]

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What successes/failures have people had in straightening thier frames?

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I think that depends on who's doing the work. I had a Spit with a bent frame. The guys I took it to did at best an amatuer job, and ripped a hole in the metal where they were pulling. They didn't even weld it up, just left it. I raised a big stink about what a half@$$ed job they did and refused to pay them until they made it right. What a nightmare. It was still never right after that. I eventually traded the car for a dirtbike! Oh well, good luck.

 

[sammyb]

Since the body can be removed from the frame, and the frame is a very simple design (plus it has the torsional rigidity of a wet noodle) -- a good collision/restoration shop should be able to straighten the frame with relative ease.

The key is simply to find a place that cares about making it right.

 

[mcguijo]

Since presumably both the body and the frame are bent equally, wouldn't it be best to NOT remove the two "pieces" and try to have them straightened together??

 

[Alan_Myers]

[ QUOTE ]
Since presumably both the body and the frame are bent equally, wouldn't it be best to NOT remove the two "pieces" and try to have them straightened together??

[/ QUOTE ]

It might be worth a try, and a really good collision repair shop may be able to do a lot to improve the situation.

But, the factory service manual gives all the frame truing dimensions and much of it's not accessible without first removing the body, which really isn't as huge a deal as it sounds.

This is particularly true when working around the front of the frame, where steering and alignment geometry are a big concern. Really good access is necessary to check that everything is as true as possible, to avoid handling problems later.

Another reason to lift the body off, personally I'd want to inspect all the original welds and hidden areas for any damage or cracking, too.

The body is more flexible than you might think, and will conform with the frame pretty easily. Some isolated brackets or fastening points might need some "convincing" to get lined back up. There are also a lot of shims used under the body mounting points, each car is different. The shims are used to help align the body panels and to compensate for some minor variation in both frame and body.

 

[Banjo]

I have worked with a collision shop, straightening the frame of an early TR4 (almost identical to your 3).
This was done with the body on, but it would have been a LOT easier if we had done it before the body went on.
The issue wasen't caught until we sent the car to an alignment shop and the right front was WAY out.
What you will quickly find is caster and camber are NOT adjustable on TR2s thru 4. These angles depend on the frame being straight. Starting with the TR4A the lower control arm is bolted to the frame, and caster and camber are adjusted with shims between the brackets and the frame rail. But on a TR2 or 3 or4 the lower arm is attached to the frame via a rod that is welded in place at the base of the spring tower, and is not movable. The upper control arm bolts can be slotted, but this is limited.
My reccomendation would be to remove the body and have a reputable collision shop get that frame spot on.
Like was stated before, the body has a lot of flexibility and give. Get the frame correct, reinstall the body, and use the frame as the jig for getting the body straight.
The body on frame is good advice if you're pulling severe collision damage on an unrepaired car, but may not have an advantage in a situation where the car has already been "fixed" once.
Best of luck Guv'na

 

[TRTEL]

My vote is to do it frame off (if the car is worth it). We tried getting my brother's 62 TR4 done similarly to the previous answer years ago and while it appeared to be straight on the alignment machines the tires always wore badly. The first time he came upon a useable frame we switched it (not that bad of a job). But when we measured the old frame we couldn't believe how crooked it still was. Pay your money take your chances.
Tom Lains

 

[jwbaker]

I just tried to straighten one with only part of the front body removed. It was bent pretty bad behind the shock tower on the right side and the fulcrum pin was distorted. No luck just a waste of time.

I am replacing the frame with a good used one. After removing the body you could clearly see the frame was bent not only one the right but also on the left and had some twist to the frame. The car had been involved in a previous accident on the left side and repairs were not done correctly.

Remove the body and then look at the frame. You might want to consider the cost to straighten vs. replacing with a good used frame. Be sure and use a good frame machine if you try to straighten.

If you are interested in a good used frame or rolling tub you might want to check out the following site:

https://myweb.wvnet.edu/~baughman/

This is an estate sale, I purchased a rolling tub with a good used frame.

J.W.

 

[Simon TR4a]

Last July I had a racing accident and did quite a lot of front end damage, not coveed by insurance, of course, so I wanted to repair it well, but not too expensively.
I was concerned about weakening the metal by straightening it, or by poor welding, and eventually purchased another frame in better condition. Heating the frame should not be a problem as it is mild steel, not tempered, so gas welding is ok.
Since your frame damage is less serious I think you could safely straighten it but would need to remove the fender and
front apron, at least. A good frame shop could advise you from there, after looking things over closely.
Ideally you should check the diagonal measurements and make sure the frame sits flat on a frame jig, but you can only do this with the body off, which may be imparactical depending on your budget or plans for the car.
Finally, the front cross member between the upper suspension towers must be in place to get accurate measurements; even a good frame will spread .25 to .5 inch when this is removed, there is that much flex.
Good luck, Simon.

 

[gsalt57tr3]

Good news!

The tire shop where I was advised to have the frame straightened recommended a specifica shop. A buddy who does hot rods recommended another shop, but when I called there, they told me they wern't doing that anymore and recommended the first shop.

When I got to the shop, the owner came out and we got to talking and he owns 2 MGBs a MGTF and a Jag 3.8s.

He cares about British cars!

The mechanic who will be doing the work said he hadn't seen one of these in many years but said that the frame is easily repairable and that he had seen much worse.

I have been fretting over this for a while and I feel much more at ease after talking to them.

I think everything is going to be all right.

 

[Banjo]

That's great news.
Best of luck.

 

[Alan_Myers]

[ QUOTE ]
Good news!....
The mechanic who will be doing the work said he hadn't seen one of these in many years but said that the frame is easily repairable and that he had seen much worse.

I have been fretting over this for a while and I feel much more at ease after talking to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is great news.

I've checked back as this has progressed and it occured to me that you might want to do some more investigating, before assuming it's a bent frame.

For example one of the vertical links in the front suspension might have gotten bent, and that would cause the tire wear you are seeing. The positive camber built into TR3 will also increase wear on the outer edges of modern radial tires.

The hood to fender gap isn't necessarily frame related, either. I "adjusted" the gap on my TR4's hood by putting my feet on the fender near front and at the top edge, and my back against the garage wall, and thenpushing it into the best alignment it's seen in 25+ years. I wish some other issues were so easily resolved!

On the other hand, it could also be a frame issue. I replaced the frame under my car due to damage from previous accidents at both ends. In fact, I was driving it when the right rear got crunched and did a body-on repair that was adequate to keep the car on the road another ten years. I wasn't surprised to see serious tweaking on the front, too, since there were other clues that the left front had been hit pretty hard.

Glad you found someone good to advise and help. Let us know what they find and do.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[Mkutz]

I don't know how good a gauge this is, but I was concerned about a bent frame on my TR3, as the front edge under the radiator looks like it had a hard bump at one time. To see whether if the passenger side shock tower was twisted at all, I measured the length between the rear nuts on the fulcrum pins between the driver's and passenger side and compared it to the space between the forward nuts on the driver's and passenger side fulcrum pins. The measurement was identical, leaving me to believe that neither is twisted. You obviously have to do this with the engine out of the bay.

If it is twisted, it probably won't be that difficult to fix. If it's one thing I found out on my TR project, it is that there isn't too much that money can't fix!

 

[donbmw]

The Jan 2006 issue of Classic Motorsports has a add for RATCO Raodtronics Automotive Technologies Company Inc. Yaphank, NY 631-205-2426. They are building TR4A (IRS) thru TR6 frames. Thier add says they will be building TR3 and TR4 frames in 2006, something to keep in mind.

Don