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Timing by Hand?

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Obtong

Obtong

Jedi Hopeful
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A friend of mine says he has never bothered with a timing light or shop manual data to set the timing on his vintage cars. Instead he simply places his hand on the engine and adjusts the distributor until the engine is at its steadiest.

I've never seen this done before, and with all the specs out there for different combinations of distributors and engines I was wondering if this "handy" approach was a valid one.

Obtong
 
This might be OK in very old "brass era" cars, which were often almost "one-speed" engines.....a Ford Model "T" comes to mind (with it's adjustable timing on the steering wheel).

Personally, for any vehicle faster than a riding lawn-mower, I'd say this method is invalid.

For cars built post-WW II: most engines will idle smoothly even if pretty far off time, if everything else is in good shape......I've seen engines idle smoothly even if they were +/- 20 degrees of correct spec. The only thing that really changes is idle speed (up to a point). Running too much advance (or too little) can cause holes in pistons, overheating, poor economy and power, starting problems and lots of other negative things.
I realize that some people may also time cars by "seat-of-pants" (judging acceleration as a function of tuning) or by listening for pinging ("pinking" to Brits).....there might be some validity to these ideas, but I'd still choose a $40 timing light (or static timing) as a better method.
By the way, many folks (me included) consider it more important for the timing to be set at high RPMs (since that's where the car might normally run anyway). I set the timing on my Spridget last week.....32 degrees BTDC at 5500 RPM. I have no idea what it reads at idle.
 
I never use a timing light on my 4-cylinder MG's - no need for it! You can listen to the engine & watch the rpm to get the timing close...then, a quick rive tells you if its off a bit & which way - backfiring (POP!) between shifts - adjust one way; dead spot/no reaction/sluggish reaction - adjust the other way.
...been doing it that way since the first MG way back in the '60's....&, I get great life on my engines, super gas mileage, & all the power the little engine can produce....
..."Timing lights? We don't need no stinkin' timing lights!"
 
I am an old electronics type and am a stickler for things to be right on. I have tried to adjust engines in the past by listening but usually find after double checking with the light, that the timing is too fast. The MG engine might be more tolerant to this than the old high performance V8's but I still like to put it right on.

aeronca65t -- I agree with you about the high speed timing but after checking that, I check the timing at idle so I can adjust it in the future at idle.
Also I disconnect the vacuum advance and plug it before I check the timing.
 
I'm with you!! I have noticed that good mechanics always time with a lght! I am a little concerned about running at 5500 RPM with no load for any length of time to set timing!!!!
cheers.gif
I would like to check my total advance, but I will put a few more miles on before I do!!
 
Timing light with adjustable dial..think most are that way now. Got one at Harbor Freight that does just fine at $21. Sorry, Tony, you have tooooo...much experience. I am just not good enough to do it that way, nor set the tappets while the car is running like friend of mine's Dad used to do. Also, certain cars have significantly different timing targets..mine is 20 Degrees BTDC based on my year and # of the dizzy though Haynes quotes 14 degrees. Also with timing light you can confirm mechanical max advance and vacuum advance is working at appropriate RPM levels. There are charts around at Paul Hunt's site and Paul Tegler's site that give great details.

JTB
 
Guys, everybody does things differently based on their experiences...I've been playing with cars the better part of my 57 years...but I don't like wiring issues so I always use the book/wiring diagram for those...setting timing by ear is a learned talent much like dialing in a set of carbs...
...heck, I once had a rocker arm jump off a valve on a side road in nowhere Kansas....opened hood, removed valve cover & took a nap under a tree....when I woke up & the engine was cool I backed all rocker adjusting screws off, reset rockers back on top of valves& adjusted them by hand using fingernail file! When I got home they were so close that only a couple had to be readjusted!

Could I do it better with a timing light? Probably..Is it worth the $27 or whatever for me to buy one? Nope!
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gary Lloyd:
I'm with you!! I have noticed that good mechanics always time with a lght! I am a little concerned about running at 5500 RPM with no load for any length of time to set timing!!!!
cheers.gif
I would like to check my total advance, but I will put a few more miles on before I do!!<hr></blockquote>

Actually, I am running a distributor with weaker springs on the mechanical advance so full timing comes in much lower at around 2500. This was a common practice back when I was hot roding in the 60's and it gave my MG a little better boost on pick-up.

[ 08-28-2003: Message edited by: mrbassman ]</p>
 
I had to put a new distributer in my old Jimmy in late July. I had no timing light handy, so I adjusted it by this very method. I've been driving it nearly every day since. No detonation, no flat spots, no run on, no rough idle (OK, no rougher than a 4.3L ever is), no ill effects whatsoever. Like Tony said originally, you need to drive it to make sure it works under load....but it does work. Then again, the Jimmy's 4.3L isn't exactly a highly sensative lump to begin with, but 184,000 relatively trouble free miles...who's complaining?

[ 08-28-2003: Message edited by: lawguy ]</p>
 
lawguy...&, before I tell this lawyer joke: my daughter is also a lawyer....

Heard a good line the other day: "Bill Clinton was recently disbarred - prohibited from practicing law. Its pretty bad when even lawyers don't want to associate with you."

No, Basil - this is not political...a comedian used it during his show!
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tony barnhill:
lawguy...&, before I tell this lawyer joke: my daughter is also a lawyer....

Heard a good line the other day: "Bill Clinton was recently disbarred - prohibited from practicing law. Its pretty bad when even lawyers don't want to associate with you."

No, Basil - this is not political...a comedian used it during his show!<hr></blockquote>

Y'know, there are only three decent lawyer jokes.......The rest are true stories.

...and I think my signature should make it clear that I don't have a thin skin about lawyer jokes.

[ 08-28-2003: Message edited by: lawguy ]</p>
 
So, what are the 3?
 
You guys can time your cars anyway you want to, it's your property. I can tell you static timing and timing by ear is like chocolate and vanilla. I use to static time my panhead Harley, as that was the only wat to do it. I would never time a car by ear or fill and drive it any ****her than I had to to get a timing light on it. It is too easy to really mess up an engine with timing too advanced, and way to easy to put a light on to make sure you have it right. I have buzzed my cars up to and over 7,000 RPM's to many times to take such a risk. If you have a light that you can manually ajust the light to see exacually where your at and do a little experementing with different settings, keeping a log of the results. You can dial one in to it's best preformance, and not worry about holing a piston or melting the top of the piston.
 
Well, I will chime in and say that I have never timed a 4 cylinder engine-VW, TR, MG- with anything but a static setting. I will vary the setting from the spec, usually 5 or 10 degrees BTDC, by slowly advancing until I get the power to come on and only the click, click of an initial knock.This is the max advance you want. Never allow repeated pinging of pre ignition under acceleration or some very bad stuff starts to happen.
I have been doing timing this way since 1967.

Recently put my MGB on a dyno with my timing as done above and varied it all over and nothing produced the torque or horsepower equal to the original setting!
 
Granted I'm still a newb, but I had a bear of a time getting my timing set statically. I could get it to start that way, but not run smoothly under load. I bought a light for $20, and it really helped me zero it in.
 
I'm a light kind of guy, and if it's good enough for Tom B it's good enough for me. After all, if Tom says a goat will pull a 10 ton wagon, I'm hitching it up. Right Gary?
cheers.gif
 
Best $20 you will ever spend. It's too easy to mess up not to be sure. If there two things I don't guess at timing is both of them. Besides there are other uses for a timing light. You can check if you have a plug not firing buy putting the pick up on each wire while the engine is running. No light and you know that wire isn't conducting. You can check you total advance #'s. You can check is a miss is ignition related by watching the light while an engine is running. If the light pulse is not a steady one you have an egnition problem. You can determan if the cam lobe is worn, or if the shaft bushing is worn. You can determan if you have a bad or weak set of springs in the distributor.
 
Tom's goat will pull that 10 ton wagon.
I know mine won't. Must be the carrots.

You can use a timing light to..."determine if the cam lobe... or shaft bushing is worn..."
How do you do that?
 
As I said, all good mechanics use a timing light!!
iagree.gif
Thanks Tom!! I guess anybody can time their own cars anyway they want, but the bottom line is that if you are doing work for other people it darn well better be right!! It is no different than building!! And believe me, I have seen some lousey builders!! No big deal if they want to do their own work 'not correct' but if they are doing a job for somebody else it better be right!! I have fixed a lot of lousey building jobs!!
 
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