Thoughts on DIY welding/bodywork

[boxfullofyertoys]

Morning everyone!

Now that my car is street legal, I've been pondering the task of doing the body work. The biggest problem cosmetically on the car are the outer sills, which would have to be removed and new ones welded in. I've never welded before, and definitely think it would be a great skill to pick up. I've already reached out to a friend with a MIG to get a little hands on time before I actually pick up some equipment of my own. I have also been Googling/YouTube-ing like crazy to find out more info on MIG welding and what's involved...

With that in mind:

- Is there anyone out there who can speak to learning to weld and repairing their cars?
- Equipment...220v, 120v, gas shielded, flux core...? How crazy do I really need to go in terms of hardware in order to properly weld? Any recommendations on what I should get?
- In terms of the outer sills themselves, they seem relatively easy to remove..the only thing I'm not 100% on is where they meet with the door pillar and rear fender. Are they welded under there? Can the sill be removed without a ton of collateral damage in those areas?
- Are there any good online resources for the sill replacement procedure? I have the Lindsay Porter book, but I don't feel like the walk-through in it inspires tons of confidence, as the photos aren't as clear as I'd like, and they seem to use photos from two different cars in the process.

Sorry for the long email this early in the AM, but the coffee just kicked in, and I figured I'd get it out now before I got distracted by my silly office job lol

As always, many thanks!

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Can't really comment on sill repalcment, but on mig welders, go for gas sheilded, and you can do almost everyhting you want with a 120 unit, go for a brand name perferably Lincoln or Miller. Ive had my Lincoln 120 unit now for 20 years and it still works as well as the day I bought, I repalced the liner and gun with a Tweaco unit, but other than that it has been a great little welder.

 

[Bayless]

What Hap said. The other thing is to get plenty of practice before ripping into your car.

 

[ryanmiller]

I just picked up a Hobart 140 120v unit and have been very happy with it for sheet metal work, but its rated up to 1/4" steel so I dont feel like I'll outgrow it too quickly. Hobart is a Miller brand made in the US.

The Hobart comes ready for gas, which saves about $75 on a regulator later when you realize that flux core wire is a mess. Don't forget a helmet. Auto-darkening makes life so much easier when learning. Harbor Freight's $40 one is sufficient. HF gloves work fine too.

There are a few good community college distance learning welding courses for free on Youtube. "Butler college" had a good one if I remember right.

Once I got outfitted and had a little practice, I couldn't believe how many uses I've found for the skill.

 

[ChrisS]

I agree with the others on the welder - get gas shielded and be sure there is adequate adjustability on heat range and wire speed. The cheap welders will drive you nuts bouncing between burn through and lack of penetration.

I've replaced the sills on my car and have some decent pics of the process. I needed to replace the lower half of the A pillar so I wasn't too careful around there but you can see the tabs of the inner pillar structure that are spot welded to the top of the sill with the door open and fender off. The skin that you see is just crimped on the inner pillar structure so there is no welding involved with it. The rear fender is also spot welded to the sill but there is no access to drill out the welds without removing the majority of the sill first. I gutted the sill and drilled the welds out from the inside of the sill up to the fender. When I reassembled I did not re weld this portion due to the lack of access. I just painted the area and ran a bead of panel adhesive / seam sealer prior to final fit up and welding of the new sill. There is also a tack weld on the inside of the wheel arc. I can post or email pics.

 

[Guest]

Get the spot weld drill tool, don'r just drill holes through it. The only thing I'll add is, 120v will do what you want to now, but not if you want to weld thicker material, i.e roll bar or aluminum. Ryan, you sure about it being rated for 1/4"? I haven't seen a 120v machine rated for more than about 3/16". Then again, I maily have used 240v machines. Last one at the shop only did 3/16" and the Lincoln it replaced.

 

[boxfullofyertoys]

This is all great stuff!

I just found a local tech school that does a 3hr/week, 12 week auto body repair course for around $350. They even let you work on your own car. For that price, it really might be worth it...granted, the next class won't start until January, and my Midget isn't going out in the snow.

The big kid in me wants to just buy the thing and learn on my own. From what it sounds like it's not that hard to get the hang of...

How has everyone's learning experience been? Was it hard to pick up? How long did you practice before you felt comfortable working on the car?

Chris: Could you post the pics or upload them to an online album? I'd love to take a look at them. It might be beneficial to start a new thread with them just so people looking around the forum for info can find them.

 

[red79]

Get the spot weld drill tool, don'r just drill holes through it

not trying to threadjack, but what dia tool are you all using for the spot welds on your spridgets?

 

[kalist]

when you are learning to mig weld you need to make sure you are getting penetration with the weld. Not so much of a factor on sheet metal but if you get into some heavier material it is very easy to lay a nice looking bead on the surface but have no penetration or strength in the weld. On body panels make sure you just do a small spot at a time, otherwise excessive heat can warp the panels. If you could find an old fender or hood to practice on would be helpful.

 

[Morris]

Don't waste your time with the solder core stuff. That's what I have and it's a nightmare!

I have an obsession with doing everything myself, and that is why I have a welder. If you are free from such burdens, you may be a lot happier paying someone else to do the work. It is very easy to stick two pieces of metal together using a mig welder. It is very, very HARD to make it look good. That said, I get a big thrill out of welding, even if my welds require a lot of grinding to look decent.

BTW... I have welded very thick metal with a 120v machine and gotten satisfactory results. If your goal is to stick two pieces of metal together... it will work fine. If your goal is to create a high stress structural joint that your life will depend on... not so much. All comes down to what you need.

"solder core"...duh. I meant flux core.

 

[ChrisS]

Pics here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/ctopher63/SmidgeRockerReplacemnet?authkey=Gv1sRgCIStu8z54aiH0QE

Let me know if they are visible

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Not to take the thread off subject, but lately I've been tempted by the new crop of inexpensive TIG welders. I think I REALLY need one... I'm sure I can find a use for it. :wink:

 

[ryanmiller]

Get the spot weld drill tool, don'r just drill holes through it. The only thing I'll add is, 120v will do what you want to now, but not if you want to weld thicker material, i.e roll bar or aluminum. Ryan, you sure about it being rated for 1/4"? I haven't seen a 120v machine rated for more than about 3/16". Then again, I maily have used 240v machines. Last one at the shop only did 3/16" and the Lincoln it replaced.

I hunted pretty hard to find the most capable machine I could run on 120v since my garage is on the opposite end of the house from my electrical panel.

"Weld Thickness: 24 ga - 1/4 in."

https://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/

 

[2091351]

Back in the last century I acquired a Acetylene setup and a 120v flux core MIG. Sold the 120v mig & bought a 240v Miller that will do both flux or gas. Only have used gas since. Last year I took a GTAW (TIG) {Heli-Arc} class at the College.

GTAW is the most fun!!!

This Web site has loads of information on all types of welding and may help??

https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

Steve

 

[Guest]

[
"Weld Thickness: 24 ga - 1/4 in."

https://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/

I saw that on a site too. I wonder if they indeed mean 1/4" thick steel, or if it's marketing doublespeak. IR claims "1000 ftlbs of nut busting torque". Fine print says will loosen a nut torqued to 1000 ftlbs, but the gun is rated at 780 ftlbs. Go figure.

I have two close friends, a father-son team who has been in welding for over 35 years. Both claim all of the 120v machines can't do any heavy stuff. "The 110v ones are good for body shop stuff, but I wouldn't weld my seat or a cage in with one of those!"

I've "stuck" two pieces of thick steel together with the small machines, but was able to break them apart with a good blow. In my experiance, aluminum is a pain to weld with the smaller boxes too. You can only weld thin aluminum with those. Well, at least the ones that I've used.

I am by no means an expert. I go by what my guys tell me. Personally, I'd opt to spend a bit more initially and have something that can do anything. That's just me. I tend to get involved in all sorts of projects, so a bigger machine makes more sense. If all you ever plan on doing is sheetmetal or really thin aluminum, IMO you'll be fine. Can't you rent these things? Ryan, what is you machine rated for aluminum? Do you have a thickness/material/setting chart on the inside cover?

 

[Sarastro]

I took a one-day quickie "get started with MIG welding" class from a local welder who does it independently. It was pretty good, enough so that I had some idea of what I needed to do, and could practice on my own from there. MIG welding is not that difficult to learn, at least to the level of doing a functionally competent job, but like anything else, it takes practice to get good at it.

If there were a welding course in this area similar to the 12-week one you described, I'd go for it in a heartbeat. You'll learn a lot and get plenty of practice.

I got a 120V welder from Northern Tool; I was told it was a rebranded Lincoln. I don't think that was true, but it's an OK unit in any case. I have the Harbor Freight autodarkening helmet, which is fine. You can also get adequate gloves and such from HF too.

 

[ryanmiller]

[
I am by no means an expert. I go by what my guys tell me. Personally, I'd opt to spend a bit more initially and have something that can do anything. That's just me. I tend to get involved in all sorts of projects, so a bigger machine makes more sense. If all you ever plan on doing is sheetmetal or really thin aluminum, IMO you'll be fine. Can't you rent these things? Ryan, what is you machine rated for aluminum? Do you have a thickness/material/setting chart on the inside cover?

It's got settings on the chart for 1/4" steel, but only with flux core wire. The chart only goes up to 11ga with gas. I haven't tried anything bigger than 11ga square stock, though I got solid penetration with that.

There are settings for 16 and 11ga aluminum on the panel, but I assume a spool gun would be required to keep aluminum wire from getting caught up in the gun cable.

 

[ABfish]

Box-
I would highly advise that you take a tech school class. That's how I learned 30 years ago, and I've never regretted it. Welding is one of those trades that you "learn by doing", but a few hours of instruction with a pro are invaluable.

I can't comment on the 120V Mig machines as I've never used one. I prefer old-fashioned stick welding for most heavy stuff, anyway.

 

[regularman]

I have used several different kind of welders and definitely prefer the flux core for working on cars. It won't give a pretty weld but you don't have a gas pocket to worry about and can back off and find the point that penetrates without burning through. I hate fooling with the gas bottles and like being able to fill holes and weld rusty exhaust pipes and things like that which I find harder with the gas because the pressure.
Now a good inverter tig setup is a different story. Its more akin to soldering or brazing and its just awesome. You get it right, you can weld aluminum coke cans. Thats big bucks the I am never going to spend for home use.

 

[TulsaFred]

I recommend the Eastwood MIG-135, a 120v unit with gas or flux core capability. I much prefer the gas for sheet metal work. It is modeled to be similar quality to the Lincoln 120v mig, and it has infinite adjustment to amperage and wire speed. The price is $299 w/free shipping via Ebay, an excellent price. It's the unit I use and I'm very happy with it. Another good option is a Hobart Handler 140, which can be bought at Tractor Supply for a good price, I think $450 or so.
For automotive work there is no need for 220v since thicknesses will be 18-24 gauge sheet metal (for body work) or 1/8 in steel for frame welds and bracket fabrication. These thicknesses are easily handled with 120v.
I think TIG is an excellent technique for automotive work, but not usually for a beginner.

Fred