Thoughts on canted car?

[richberman]

Well I got to see my car today at the bodyshop and I noticed that that the car tires did not seem to fit symmetrically in the wheel wells. When I backed up I noticed that the car sits up higher on the entire left side. I know the frame was straight because I had it checked at that stage. I had the rear springs checked as well. I know the tires on the right are flatter but even when we filled them it still cants. I looked under the rear end and noticed that the rear axle case sits about 1" above the frame cross member on the right but only 1/4"-1/2" on the left. Did I connect the rear springs wrong? What should I check?
Thanks.
Rich

 

[andrea]

Hi Rich
First chek the rear shock absorber and then the front
Cheers
Andrea

 

[vette]

Rich, a couple ideas, 1. Did you change your rear out rigger. Is it in the right place. Or did you change the rear spring perches? 2. But any easy one may be that you installed new rear spring shackle bushings. The ones I got had too thick of a shoulder and with that I could tighten the bolt to the point that it tightened up the shackle and kept it from swinging there by pushing the rear of the leaf spring in a raised position.
Dave.

 

[red57]

I would jack up the front with the jack in the center of the frame crosmember (use a board or something to avoid crushing the weld bead and/or bending the crossmember) to make sure the front isn't influencing the way the rear sits. If it is still canted then you know the problem is in the rear. Possibly the springs don't have the same arch? Or, as Dave says maybe one of the shackles is 'pinching' and not allowing movement? As Andrea suggests, try disconnecting the shocks to make sure they are giving proper travel and not binding?
Dave

 

[richberman]

Rich, a couple ideas, 1. Did you change your rear out rigger. Is it in the right place. Or did you change the rear spring perches? 2. But any easy one may be that you installed new rear spring shackle bushings. The ones I got had too thick of a shoulder and with that I could tighten the bolt to the point that it tightened up the shackle and kept it from swinging there by pushing the rear of the leaf spring in a raised position.
Dave.

Dave,
1a. No. There are no new outriggers.
1b. Rear spring perches are original.
2.Yes, new spring shackle bushings, which were tightened while up on jack stands. Maybe I can just loosen them and then re-tighten with the car down on tires? Or will I need to trim off any excess rubber?

I will also check the rear shocks as Andrea suggested.

thanks for the ideas.
rich

 

[vette]

Rich, when I did my rear springs the new shackle bushings would not allow me to tighten the shackle bolts because the new bushes had a thicker shoulder than the old bushings. What would happen is that the end links of the shackles would draw up on the bushing instead of allowing themselves to seat on the taper of the bolt. with end links tight against the bushing (and the bushing is not designed to turn in its mount) the shackle can't swing. I made a small article and pic for a local car club out of the experience. I will try to attach the pic. Dave PS: You can see that with the thicker shoulder of the bushing the bolt does not stick out proud of the bushing on the left side of the pic, and the taper of the bolt on the right side is shroulded by the bushing shoulder (colar). So the shackle end piece can not bear against the offset of the bolt on its left side, nor can it bear/tighten up on the taper on its right side.

 

[richberman]

Rich, when I did my rear springs the new shackle bushings would not allow me to tighten the shackle bolts because the new bushes had a thicker shoulder than the old bushings. What would happen is that the end links of the shackles would draw up on the bushing instead of allowing themselves to seat on the taper of the bolt. with end links tight against the bushing (and the bushing is not designed to turn in its mount) the shackle can't swing. I made a small article and pic for a local car club out of the experience. I will try to attach the pic. Dave PS: You can see that with the thicker shoulder of the bushing the bolt does not stick out proud of the bushing on the left side of the pic, and the taper of the bolt on the right side is shroulded by the bushing shoulder (colar). So the shackle end piece can not bear against the offset of the bolt on its left side, nor can it bear/tighten up on the taper on its right side.

Vette,
I see what you are talking about, but what was your solution?
rich

 

[vette]

Rich, I cut down the outer surface of the colar of the bushing to reduce the thickness of the colar. this allowed the bolt offset on the left to be proud of the colar and the bolt taper on the right to be wholely unshrouded. I did this in multiple steps with the bushing in a vise and a belt sander. It was a pain, I didn't take much off each time, I wanted to remove just enough material from the bushing colar to allow the 'system' to work as it should but keep end play between the end pieces and the bushing colar to a minimum. I had to press the bushings in and out a number of times till I got it right. I just remembered another thing that surprised me very much when I did these bushings....When I 1st pressed the bushings into their respective bosses which is just a section of pipe creating a round orfice to accept the bushings, after the bushings where pressed into place, their inside diameter shrunk. I couldn't believe that that pipe boss had the strength to compress the bronze bushing without the pipe spliting given the fact that the bushing body is rather thick. At first I thought I must have rolled the edge of the inner diameter with my mandrel thereby keeping the bolt from sliding in. So I gentley reamed the end but the bolt would not go in. Yet the bolt was a loose fit on the bench. Since the working quarters are rather tight at the rear of the spring, i had to press the bushings back out each time i wanted to adjust their fit. So I pressed the bushing back out, bored the whole alittle with a sand paper mandrel, (realize that this was on the bench and on the bench the bolt slipped thru the bushings easily from the start) I had no reference just alittle at a time, then refit it. What a pain. But they are in there now. If the shackle is tight it will lock your spring at the trailing end in one position or the other. ... Dave.

 

[richberman]

That sounds like a royal PIA. I wonder if I can modify it in place. I still have nightmares from jacking the springs up to the axle and tightening the U-bolts.

 

[vette]

Rich, Putting the leaf spring up to the axle isn't such a big deal. That shouldn't be that difficult, but maybe it was more difficult if the shackle was not swinging and you had alot more stress trying to get the spring up to the axle. I would not try to loose the (remove the bolt) from the shackle with the spring bolted up to the axle. If you did get it out without breaking something, like your head or your hand, I don't think you would get it back in.
To raise the spring to the axle, I made a small wooden " U " approx just smaller than the longitudinal demension of the spring plate, with the " U " facing up, I located this wooden U central under the plate and stradling the spring center bolt. The U was also made of the appropriate size that it did not interfer with the placement of the U-bolts down thru the plate. Then i used a small hydralic pedistal jack to jack up on the wooden U to raise the spring. Drop the U-bolts in and spin the nuts and washers on. "BUT MAYBE IT WAS MORE DIFFICULT IF THE SHACKLE WAS NOT SWINGING". Loosen the nuts on the shackle bolts to allow the shackles to swing before you lower the spring from the axle.

 

[Keoke]

What should I check?-The springs and their bushes

 

[HealeyPassion]

Vette,
Do you have any pics of the wooden U? What kind of wood did you use? I'm about to put new springs on mine and when I did it before I had the car apart so I had other options.
Thanks,
Steve

 

[vette]

Steve, maybe tomorrow night I will be able to post something. I'll have to warn you, the wooden U is not fancy. And it doesn't have to be any particular wood. It is not long. Approximately the length of the bottom plate. With small Blocks (maybe alittle more than an inch long) stacked at each end and tacked/screwed/glued together. The blocks allow the longer horizontal piece to stradle the spring center bolt. Then the pedistal jack pushes up on the horizontal piece with the piece not hitting the center bolt. Just imagine in your mind, 'how can you jack up on the center of the spring without the jack pushing on the center spring bolt', YOU MAKE A WOODEN U.
Dave.

 

[HealeyPassion]

Vette,
Thanks.... I think I've got it .. probably don't need the pics now. Thanks again!
Steve

 

[Frameman]

2 questions- Did you make sure the arch for the springs was the same arch for left to right?
Are the links from the rear shock to the axle on correctly? If they are installed wrong the shock will bottom out, preventing the axle the proper travel.
If the links are on wrong, the shock will not move with the axle. If all these items are correct, support the car on the front of the chassis. If the car still sits high on one side, it is a rear spring or a chassis alignment problem. If a car has been sitting for a long time always replace the front springs.
Marty

 

[richberman]

Marty,
When I get the car back in my possession I will check each of those issues. Thanks for the laundry list.
rich