The Project: A "before" shot of the car.

[DrEntropy]

LOTS of rust holes. Used the "shortie" rear patch panels, this shows the cutout to accomodate the panel. I've used "Panel Bond" epoxy to attach the pieces. Great stuff... "Better Living, Through Chemistry!"

Remember: this is a ~driver~. Not to be put on a pillow and admired /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jimd]

Hi Dr. Could you explain the rear patch panels a little more? You made those cut outs yourself and plan to install the panels with epoxy? No welding? Where did you get the panels? How are you going to prep inside the well? Thanks. Jim.

 

[DrEntropy]

heh... Already done. Yup, I cut the holes with a thin cut-off wheel on a small grinder, used a die grinder on as much of the inner fenders as could be accessed, wire brushed and 36 grit sanded by hand what couldn't be done with that. Sprayed SEM "RustMort" liberally inside there and final treated with epoxy primer (Valspar VP 50) and colour. Ground the "contact area" of the repair panels (from VickieBrit- $35 each), gooped 'em up with PanelBond and used pop rivets in predrilled (~slightly~ countersunk) holes to "nail" 'em down. As far as I can tell, they're not gonna move at all short of takin' a hammer to 'em.

I ~did~ do some 'xperimenting with the stuff ahead of time on scrap bits: Steel and aluminum both... took bending the joint past 30 degrees (in a vise, with a BF hammer) before the epoxy showed ANY stress failure. Remember also: UH-1's (helicopters) were assembled in much the same manner. I've logged many hours in those and never saw a failure in the seams... Bullet holes, yes. I'll take the chance my B will stay together /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Banjo]

Neat. I've heard the epoxy bond is generally stronger than welding. I'd love to see some in progress pics.

 

[DrEntropy]

Eeep! I did a bunch of "before" and "After" pix... not too many "during"s Me mits were generally NASTY "during" and so eschewed the camera handling. SWMBO has an actual J-O-B, so wasn't in attendance either. I may have some, but likely a disappointing few. Shoulda/woulda/coulda, huh?

You're inna trade, Banjo, so you'd pro'lly get a kick outta seein' "How-To's". Sorry. Take my word fer it: That stuff is GREAT if applied right. Used it onna floor pans too, and ya could safely have a square dance on 'em if there wuz enuff room...

 

[Dave Russell]

A lot of the newer car bodies are assembled with various "panel bond" adhesives on the non structural parts. The "Fusor" products by "Lord Co" for example. They work as you say. No weld distortion, no grinding or straightening, & stronger than welding. Lot of aircraft parts are also assembled this way.

However, it's a little hard to get around the old notions that welding is the only way to go. So -- no pics or disclosures about where it has been used on old British cars.
D

 

[DrEntropy]

[ QUOTE ]
Lot of aircraft parts are also assembled this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hence my earlier referrence to the UH-1's.

[ QUOTE ]

However, it's a little hard to get around the old notions that welding is the only way to go. So -- no pics or disclosures about where it has been used on old British cars.
D

[/ QUOTE ]

ACK! SO now I've been the instrument of LBC doom?!? Cats outta bags, an' all that? GOR... here I thought it was of some note/interest.

<slinks off>

 

[Dave Russell]

[ QUOTE ]
GOR... here I thought it was of some note/interest.


[/ QUOTE ]
I suspect that there is a lot of interest. Also many enlightened folks who are doing it. They just don't admit it publicly in the LBC world. I'm sure that the revolution will continue. After all, who would have bought a car that was "glued together" a few years ago?
Some interesting reading here:
https://www.lord.com/
D

 

[DrEntropy]

Bookmarked. THX Dave.

I have every confidence the "glue" will be holding these panels in place for the lifetime of this MG. I've used it to reinforce the doors at the "classic" wing window cracks as well. Magic goo IMHO.

 

[Radford]

Wot? All these new fangled ways, not for people who drive cars not manufactured in more than a quarter of a century, and most of wich are barely post war in design.

 

[DART]

That stuff sounds PERFECT for my "tupperware specials!"

 

[DrEntropy]

<RANT MODE>

Dear MISTER Bunker,

Two outta five of my cars have ALL PLASTIC bodies... "frozen snot"..., structurally integral with the 75 pound (!), 18 Ga. mild sheet steel chassis... but they're certainly the fastest/quickest of the herd as well. I'd pit the Elan against nearly ANY other LBC of it's day, and newer. Go figger, huh? And both ~were~ designed/built inna early to mid '60's BTW. I calculate that as more'n a quarter century. I see NO conflict with using aerospace technology to keep an early MGB onna road. AGAIN: This is NOT a "Restoration," rather a rebuild (I know the difference). The car was compromised years before we got it; Gonna make it purty, shiny and straight, then proceed to drive th' wheels offin' it. It sits down inna dirt where it was originally designed to be, has an engine that was actually designed for it (taken to "Special Tuning Manual"-"Stage 5") without being hog-tied by airpumps and low compression... Over all, ~THE~ MGB to own. If it has a bit of bubblegum holdin' it together, I don't mind. They ALL have warts by now, this one fewer than most I've seen. NO "Scotch-Lok's" or crimp connectors in the wiring harness, a factory hard top, "Personal" steering wheel (admittedly from a '68 B-GT promotional package), No poxy (HEAVY) wire wheels, REAL switches inna dash. Steel sleeve inserts in the tranny to support the layshaft... and a few more actual engineering enhancements to make it a highly reliable, easily serviced example. After '68, the power went DOWN, ride height, weight and C.G.went UP, the cars were a gross, grotesque harlequin of the originals. Only thing wrong with it is it's not a '67, but we can live with that.

</RANT MODE>

There, I feel better now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Dozuki]

You've piqued my interest on this one. Would LOVE to see more pictures. My B has more than a few warts, and I'm NOT opposed to space age technology for it. Restore? My car? no. Me "restore" a car, probably not. Rebuild, definately. Modify, definately. Lets let all the cats outta their bags. that's the great thing about the net. Spill the info and let those that wanna use it do so, those that wanna poo poo it, then they don't have use the technology. I would have no problem admitting that my car is 'glued' toghether. Especially when the glue is stronger than rust.

 

[DrEntropy]

Your courage is reassuring... "Please Stand By."

I will likely be putting some "unusual" answers to common problems into practice on this project, and will "share" to any/all who own their LBC's simply for the pleasure of it.

We'll call it "OpenSource" for lack of a better ('net) term. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Dozuki]

Open Source =) I like it... Think the sills could be 'poxied? I'm indeed going to try the floor pans and more.

 

[Radford]

[ QUOTE ]
<RANT MODE>

Dear MISTER Bunker,

Two outta five of my cars have ALL PLASTIC bodies... "frozen snot"..., structurally integral with the 75 pound (!), 18 Ga. mild sheet steel chassis... but they're certainly the fastest/quickest of the herd as well. I'd pit the Elan against nearly ANY other LBC of it's day, and newer. Go figger, huh? And both ~were~ designed/built inna early to mid '60's BTW. I calculate that as more'n a quarter century. I see NO conflict with using aerospace technology to keep an early MGB onna road. AGAIN: This is NOT a "Restoration," rather a rebuild (I know the difference). The car was compromised years before we got it; Gonna make it purty, shiny and straight, then proceed to drive th' wheels offin' it. It sits down inna dirt where it was originally designed to be, has an engine that was actually designed for it (taken to "Special Tuning Manual"-"Stage 5") without being hog-tied by airpumps and low compression... Over all, ~THE~ MGB to own. If it has a bit of bubblegum holdin' it together, I don't mind. They ALL have warts by now, this one fewer than most I've seen. NO "Scotch-Lok's" or crimp connectors in the wiring harness, a factory hard top, "Personal" steering wheel (admittedly from a '68 B-GT promotional package), No poxy (HEAVY) wire wheels, REAL switches inna dash. Steel sleeve inserts in the tranny to support the layshaft... and a few more actual engineering enhancements to make it a highly reliable, easily serviced example. After '68, the power went DOWN, ride height, weight and C.G.went UP, the cars were a gross, grotesque harlequin of the originals. Only thing wrong with it is it's not a '67, but we can live with that.

</RANT MODE>

There, I feel better now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, perhaps I should have put the IRONY flag up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

 

[DrEntropy]

mehheh! I saw it in spite of th' non-display; wuz "takin 'th' pi**.""

Ain't a thang: I lurked a ~bit~ afore I "jumped" in here, *Qualified* a few of y'all. Couldn't do th' traditional "Wallet Biopsy" but still have a fair picture of "the usual suspects."

You allowed th' opp of makin' th' point there's a "practical" approach to rebuilding an MGB... and it doesn't need to be achieved by beating ourselves up tryin' to match "yestertech" means and methods.

"SCIENCE!"... or MacGyver; Whatever works /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

S'all about keepin' these LBC's onna pavement and under their own steam. "Purists" can cringe, an' since you're pedalin' a '75 B about you're more inna "practical" category as I see it....

Now, about th'"Dude" reference... we gotta TALK. <SNORK>

 

[Nunyas]

heh...

Driving a '76 for my daily I'm definitely in the practical catagory. Whether it's modern tech or old tech, it doesn't matter to me. What does matter is which tech will get me the results I want with the least amount of bloody knuckles. Which, of course, means my "fixes" are all a mixture of both. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jimd]

[ QUOTE ]
heh... Already done. Yup, I cut the holes with a thin cut-off wheel on a small grinder, used a die grinder on as much of the inner fenders as could be accessed, wire brushed and 36 grit sanded by hand what couldn't be done with that. Sprayed SEM "RustMort" liberally inside there and final treated with epoxy primer (Valspar VP 50) and colour. Ground the "contact area" of the repair panels (from VickieBrit- $35 each), gooped 'em up with PanelBond and used pop rivets in predrilled (~slightly~ countersunk) holes to "nail" 'em down. As far as I can tell, they're not gonna move at all short of takin' a hammer to 'em.

I ~did~ do some 'xperimenting with the stuff ahead of time on scrap bits: Steel and aluminum both... took bending the joint past 30 degrees (in a vise, with a BF hammer) before the epoxy showed ANY stress failure. Remember also: UH-1's (helicopters) were assembled in much the same manner. I've logged many hours in those and never saw a failure in the seams... Bullet holes, yes. I'll take the chance my B will stay together /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I'll print this out and keep it for when the time comes. Jim.

 

[Radford]

[ QUOTE ]
heh...

Driving a '76 for my daily I'm definitely in the practical catagory. Whether it's modern tech or old tech, it doesn't matter to me. What does matter is which tech will get me the results I want with the least amount of bloody knuckles. Which, of course, means my "fixes" are all a mixture of both. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the right spirit.