Su Solid state fuel pump

[AUSMHLY]

64 BJ8 II, has stock fuel pump. Working OK. Been reading that these have points and can cause a problem. If so, hit it with a hammer to brake the sticking and away you go? Hit what, the pump or some part of the car?

Moss and others, sell after market solid state ones. Some with the clicking sound, some don't. Some are double pumps (competition pumps) that deliver 30 gallons per hour. Any advantage to that, with my stock Healey?

Maybe install one inline, as a back up?

Maybe remove my working stock one and replace with a solid state, ticking one?

Looking to solve as many problems up front before they happen, while my car is apart, ready to be painted and put back together. Easyer to do things now.

Keep orginal, that is working or replace?
Thank you, Roger

 

[Dave Russell]

Hi Roger,
I would hit the pump or the surface it is mounted to. If you hit your thumb, the resulting howl might get it working. Actually, if hitting it is needed, it's time to repair or replace the pump. I would replace the pump & keep the still working one as a spare.

The little square body Facet pump that Moss sells can be had from J.C. Whitney for less than half of the Moss price. This pump will do the job but makes a lot of noise.

The average 150 H.P. engine will consume about 12 gallons per hour at full throttle & max rpm. A 15 GPH pump should be adequate.

A solid state SU should give 20 plus years of trouble free service. For that matter, a new points type SU pump should do the same & costs less. Think how long the last one survived.

Don't think that you need an extra installed in line. As long as you have a spare available it isn't hard to do a roadside change. Backup pumps "might" be an advantage in a racing situation where you couldn't afford the short down time to change pumps.

I carry a spare Facet pump in case someone else has problems. It is a two wire pump so can work on either positive or negative ground. It is light enough that it can hang by the hoses in an emergency. My points type SU was new about 12 years ago & is still working fine. It is the later model pump as found on the BJ8's. I think that Burlen Fuel Systems, UK sells the SU pumps for quite a bit less than Moss does, unless the exchange rate has screwed things up.

If you go for a points type SU you will need an AZX1319 for positive ground or an AZX1308 for negative ground. The later SU's can be converted from pos to neg ground by changing the arc supression diode which is easily available from Moss. #377-135 for positive ground, #377-145 for negative ground.
D

 

[Keoke]

No Rog, you don't even need a hammer,just reach over the seat and bang the rear panel where the pump is mounted and usually it will start ticking again.My preference is a replacement SU Electronic pump and keep the original as a spare.There is a universal Electronic replacement SU available identified as AZX1307 You simply state whether you want it in the NEG or Pos ground configuration ---FWIW---Keoke.

 

[RF Thom]

Why bang the pump ? Take it off before it gives you trouble and add a transister to trigger off the points. The transister will handle the current load now all the point do is trigger the transisted - they never ark or burn just run. This is cheaper than the full solid state and works just as well.

Regards, Bob

 

[Dave Russell]

Hi Bob,
If the transistor circuit is not properly designed, the pump contacts will not carry enough current to be self cleaning & will cause just as much trouble.

SU had quite a bit of trouble with their first "solid state" pumps.

"It has been found that a small amount of periodic arcing can actually be good for the switch contacts, because it keeps the contact faces free from small amounts of dirt and corrosion. If a mechanical switch contact is operated with too little current, the contacts will tend to accumulate excessive resistance and may fail prematurely. This minimum amount of electric current necessary to keep a mechanical switch contact in good health is called the wetting current."

One SU rebuilder replaces the contacts with a reed switch to avoid this problem.
D

 

[Keoke]

Hi Bob, Been there done that .The garden variety of Transistors which are inexpensive and readily available require different Base Biasing values depending on the country of origin and are subject to change with little warning. Oh, If you don't bang the pump how else you gonnna get Home---FWIW---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[DART]

Pardon my thread barge-in...I got tired of banging the rear seatback on my SP250 to get the pump ticking again, and had it rebuilt to solid state. Total cost $75 including extra cleaning, S&H, etc. Was done by Dave DuBois, SU Fuel Pump Restoration; 1913 S. Marine Dr.; Bremerton, WA 98312. Ph:360-479-0462. Email <ddubois@sinclair.net> I have no idea if the price is good, bad or inbetween, but the service and quality are top drawer.

 

[Keoke]

Well now Dart, Im thinking that was a real fair price.But I bet he didn't know it was for a Tupper Ware Car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Just Kidding you a bit what series and year is your Daimler? There are few more of them over there on that coast. This is the first I have heard of Dave in many years he has a lot of experience behind him.---FWIW---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

OH! By the way you got a spare??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[john_j]

If you do decide to convert to transistor, details of how to do it are here.....

https://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/library/pump_pos.htm

https://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/library/pump_neg.htm

 

[john_j]

PS, when my car was built (Healey Tickford) they obviously knew how unreliable SU pumps were, as it has 2 - all the Warwick cars did.
The reason is supposed to be Main and Reserve, with the option of both (operated by the 'Alpine' switch for climbing passes), but knowing that there's a spare gives confidence, and flicking a switch on the dash is easier than hitting it!

 

[DART]

Keoke- it's a 62 B spec, and not a spot of rust on floor pans or rocker panels. I believe I have at least one "spare" pump. Unlike Timex, it quit ticking. I recently found it in a box of replaced parts from work done in the 70's.

 

[Dave Russell]

[ QUOTE ]
PS, when my car was built (Healey Tickford) they obviously knew how unreliable SU pumps were, as it has 2 - all the Warwick cars did.
The reason is supposed to be Main and Reserve, with the option of both (operated by the 'Alpine' switch for climbing passes)

[/ QUOTE ]
The earlier SU pumps such as the typle L, HP, AUF200/AZX 1200, only had about 7 gal/hour pumping capacity. This was marginal to inadequate at high engine power loads. It wasn't so much a matter of reliability as pumping capacity. The late BJ8 pumps, AUF 300/AZX 1300, had about 15 gal/hour capacity so only one was needed for full power.

The dual type AUF 400/AZX 1400, has about 30 gal/hour capacity with both ends operating & is not needed unless the engine is highly modified & being run at maximum. It does have the "questionable" advantage of "maybe" being able to run on each side independently (at 15 gph) if the valves & diaphram are still intact.

In my opinion, the later pumps are very reliable as evidenced by many 35 year old pumps still working. It seems like a lot of carb flooding problems come about when the pumps are indiscrimently replaced with something "better" that has higher than the recommended 3 psi max pressure output that the SU carb floats are designed for.

Note: If you accidently reverse the polarity on these pumps the contact protector diode will blow. The pump will continue to work and the diode failure usually shows no immediate operational difference in the pump, but contact life will be very short. As noted earlier, replacement diodes are readily available for either polarity.

Aside; If a full wave bridge rectifier is connected to the input of a polarity sensitive device, the device will receive the correct polarity no matter which way the input is connected.
D

 

[Keoke]

Well Dart,Since you found such a good source for upgrading the pumps you might give some consideration to having the spare done too,its nice to to have a spare in the boot.How are you for spare parts do you know where to get them here in the US??---Keoke

 

[Keoke]

Hi John J, Yes we were using that circuit back in the 80's it can be tuned to each individual pump for a given transistor source{ Mexico,Maylaysa,Tiawan-Etc}and the pump you have in your hand. However just assembling those parts in any pump do not gurantee that the pump is operating at its proper point.If you have ever run a SU pump off the car with the fuel ports open you will soon learn to detect the correct operating point by the uniqe popping sound it makes. In this circuit that requires adjusting the base bias resitor to suit.The resistance values I encounterd using this circuit varied from; 0-to-33ohms.However, it can be made to work-Just carry a spare or hope and pray it fails in front of Radio Shack.---Keoke- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

P.S. The Tickford is a very nice car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

 

[DART]

Keoke- I'll send you a PM so as to not clog this AH thread w/other lbc posts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Patton]

With Basil's recent aquisition, you guys ought to add a Daimler Forum!!! I found a 60's Daimler Sendan that someone did a chop job to which I tried to save, but it was gone the next week when I went back to negotiate /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[RF Thom]

I modified my SU pumps as per the thread details noted in 'john j' post above, and never had any trouble with the six [6] pumps I've converted over the past 4 years, for my and friends cars. In response to the note above relative to arcing - once all the oxygen inside the cap is used up no further arcing [ or oxidizing ] can occur. That's why the cap is usually sealed with tape,a rubber sleeve, and seal on the terminal. Later pumps had a vent in the cap and in the body that were hooked together with tubing. This allowed the air inside the pump on either side of the diaphram to be moved without introducing new oxygen into the system.

Regards, Bob

 

[bmurphy7369]

Roger,

I have a 1975 XJ6C that uses the dual S.U. Pumps and got tired of cleaning the points and beating on the pumps every now and then. Eventually, they both died, so I checked the cost of replacement pumps. They were in the range of $120.00 to $185.00 for aftermarket and the S.U. Electronic AUX1307, Negative Earth Replacement. I held off since the Zenith Strombergs were being rebuilt at the time, the cost seemed a bit high, and I did a search on ebay for "Jaguar Fuel Pump", I think, and found a vendor that listed the S.U. Electronic Solid State AUX1307 for around $75 plus reasonable shipping. I immediately bid on the starting price and got one pump, to start so that I could at least test the carbs. I installed it last week along with the carb set and am really impressed with it. First of all, it primes up immediately and quietly, and secondly, it looks more original than the pump I replaced, complete with the correct S.U. logo for the era. I would highly recommend going with the electronic S.U. for your car and checking ebay for one you could purchase at about half the list price. I'll see if I can find the vendor's name and email it to you. Best of luck and hope this is helpful.

Brian /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[Keoke]

That # 1307 is real sleeper huh Murphy??---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Keoke]

Bob, you telling me that the pump was running on virtually pure nitrogen because it evacuated all the oxygen??---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif