Starter replacement

[mirceme]

Today my wife stopped at the local service station to fill her tank. When she tried to restart her car, all she got was a whining starter and the engine wouldn't turn over. Lucky for her, she was right across the street from our local import service garage (unfortunately they specialize in high end Italian imports). The mechanics at the garage happily gave her a push start and told her that she needed a new starter. They also passed on the words of advice that if her husband had any idea on how to hold a wrench, he should be able to change out the starter himself.

Well, I'm up for the challange if I can get some help/advice.

A little background:
1974 MGB
Engine Number sequence: 18V
Haynes manual tells me it is a LUCAS 2M100 starter motor

Question 1 - Based on the fact that the starter whines but does not turn the engine over do the words of wisdom from my Italian car fixing friends sound right? Is it a faulty starter?

Question 2 - How hard is it to pull this starter? The removal and refitting from the Haynes manual is a little vague and seems to encompass 4 or 5 steps.. Disconnect the battery, remove the top bolt, pull the wires from the solenoid, remove the lower bolt, remove unit. The next step would be to take it and have the starter rebuilt. Then reverse the steps from above. I'm not naive enough to believe it is as easy as stated above... Pearls of wisdom from someone who has been there would be helpful. A real cookbook approach for a true newbie would be best.

Thanks in advance to any and all help provided.

 

[r67cat]

The replacement is not a difficult task, just follow your Haynes manual. You might consider one of the High torque starters available as a replacement for the original. I converted my 1980 B to a high torque starter, took less than a hour to swap out the old and install the new. Easier on the battery too. Give it a try. Good luck, Rick

 

[young MG enthusiast]

I've been there before (twice). I can't really say whether the starter is the problem or not, but if you do need to replace it, it's fairly simple... this coming from a 23 year old with very little mechanical experience.

First, as the Haynes manual states, disconnect the battery. Next, disconnect the wires from the starter, making sure you note which wire goes to what terminal (I ended up switching the wires and got a very unpleasant electrical smell from the ballast resistor). Take a short 1/2" wrench and hold it on the nut on the top bolt of the starter, and use a 1/2" socket wrench to loosen the bolt. Don't take the bolt off, leave it on just enough to hold the starter to the engine when you take off the bottom bolt. Next, crawl under the car and take off the bottom bolt (sometime easier said than done... there's not a lot of room to work with a wrench). Then, put a piece of cardboard on the ground, remove the top bolt and gently "drop" the starter on the cardboard. Putting it back on is just the opposite as taking it off. Like I said, it's not too bad. It should take you around an hour or so.

But of course, I'd get some other opinions here on the British Car Forum to see whether or not it's a starter problem.

Hope this helps.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif

 

[Guest]

If the starter is just whineing and not turning the engine then either the bendix is bad or the ring gear on the flywheel is stripped of teeth or loose. I would recommend removing the starter and taking it to be tested. The bendix can be replaced but since the starter is off probably for the first time in many years it should be rebuilt with new brushes, bearings etc.
Bob

 

[Bruce74B]

Has the trouble continued? Is your wife still driving it? I would pull the starter (it is not difficult as described above) and look it over myself to see why it might not be engaging...it could just need a good "degunking" and a little lubrication. If the teeth are ground down you will see that. A quick check in a good vice or other mount and hooking up a battery directly to the motor (use a heavy wire) will let you see if the Bendix is working propery. A starter is not very complicated. You may just have experience a fluke incident of it not engaging the flywheel. Take it out, check it out and put it back in before you rush to get a total rebuild.

Just my opinion...so call me thrifty /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Bruce /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[William]

We had that problem with Dad's '71. According to our Bentley manual, the clutch slave cylinder needs to be removed to get at the bottom bolt. I looked at it and there seemed to be just enough room to get at the bolt, but moving the slave cylinder might make things a tad easier.
-Wm.

 

[Dave Russell]

[ QUOTE ]
If the starter is just whining and not turning the engine then either the bendix is bad or the ring gear on the flywheel is stripped of teeth or loose.
Bob

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this model has a bendix?
D

 

[Guest]

OK, the drive assembly. I just had a thought, if this is stuck on the shaft and not sliding into the ring gear (flywheel gear) it would just whine and not turn the engine. Why not remove the starter and see if that is the case. It may be all that is wrong.
Bob

 

[mirceme]

Here is the update on the starter:

Took a while to get the starter out... I got hung up on the oil filter and struggled to get the oil filter out.

Bendix teeth on starter worn smooth, clutch in starter shot, being rebuilt as this is being posted. Should have it back by next Monday or Tuesday.

The question in my mind is why did this happen and how long would it take for this to happen?

The previous owner had a problem with the ignition lock and by-passed the ignition switch/harness with a toggle switch and starter button. This caused all kinds of problems (i.e. wipers didn't work) not to mention that anyone could climb in and start the car. To correct this, I bought a replacement on E-bay. The replacement has a weak spring so the key doesn't come back from the start position to the on position. I warned my wife and she claims that she is careful to disengage the starter after the engine catches.

If she didn't disengage the starter, how long would it take her to wear out bendix?

If this is the cause, I can
1) eat the cost of the ignition switch/harness and buy a new one or
2) by-pass the starter position on the ingnition and use the starter button the previous owner installed.
Being cheap and because I already have a hole in the dash with a non-funtioning starter button in place, I'd like to use option 2 and reactivate the starter button. To do this, I would like to keep the ignition key for the unlock, run and accessory functions but transfer the starter function to the starter button.

I'd like your collective advice on this and help on how to actually accomplish this little rewiring act.

 

[Ed Bell]

If the starter was left engaged for any length of time, with the engine running, it would cause a lot of wear rapidly. I would be concerned that this would wear on the teeth of the ring gear too! As you may know, a ring gear is a lot harder to replace than a starter. If you cannot correct the problem with the ignition switch, I would certainly go back to using a starter button. I have done this on other cars, with good results. Most people now days have never seen a starter button, and don't know what to do if the key doesn't activate the starter! Sending a non mechanical person, (wife), out on the road with something that they have to be carefull of has never worked for me. I once replaced an automatic choke with a manual one, and my wife would complain that the car didn't run very well, and seemed to be smoking a lot. I would tell her, "Just push the knob in when it warms up!!!" Got nowhere, and re installed the automatic choke. One other thing. If your car has a ballasted ignition, and the key stays in the start position, you will be bypassing the ballast resistor while the engine is running. This will eventually harm the coil, as it is not intended to run at full voltage, except when the starter is engaged.

 

[RobSelina]

Depending on your financial situation, replace the ignition switch or mount a button on the dash. As was said above, not many people know about starter buttons nowadays, so I wouldn't be concerned about theft. I have a 67 Scout sitting in my driveway that nobody knows how to start for this very reason /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Check the ring gear now for wear. You should be able to see it through the hole where the starter was mounted. With any luck, the ring gear has reasonable teeth still. Was the entire starter gear worn down or only part of it? If so, is the entire ring gear worn or just part of it. I had a similar problem on my Jeep, the starter wasn't popping out properly, and only partially engaged the ring gear. It wore half the ring gear and half the starter gear down....I managed to replace the starter (only $40 for a rebuilt one) and leave the ring gearfor a year until I had to replace the clutch, which was a slightly better time to deal with it....