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Sputter, miss, backfire, Yuck!!!!

Jim_Gruber

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I've been having major issues with Bugsy my '68 Sprite all summer that have kept him off of the road. No power, backfire, sputter, pop, general Spridget malaise. I've worked through carbs, dizzy, replaced a whole bunch of electrical etc. all to no avail. Finally had the courage this AM to endure 4,000 RPM starts to get him moving and get Bugsy 5-6 miles away to Steve Miller's Shop, MG Automotive here in Dayton.

Popped the bonnet open. Car starts easily and will idle really lumpy and run at high RPMs as long as under minimal load. Plugs are clean no issues indicated there. Steve told me sounds like a big vacumn problem and sure enough, the spray can of brake cleaner sprayed around the intake manifold revealed a major vacumn leak by the back carb. I'm only running on the front carb. It appears I've got a bad intake manifold gasket or possibly a cracked intake manifold. It appear some DPO used sealer rather than a paper gasket in there and the sealer finally worked it's way out. No clue why but I'll report back.

Anyway, later today I need to get Bugsy back in the garage, PB Blast all of the bolts and leave overnight and start back in tomorrow morning taking things apart to replace the gasket. Have a spare manifold in the garage in the event I've got a cracked manifold under there after I get things apart.

This leads me back to a problem someone way having with severe bog issues last week. Get out the spray can of WD-40 or Brake cleaner and see if you find a leak. Brake cleaner sprayed around the intake manifold will manifest itself as either a huge plume of white smoke coming out of the exhaust as it is sucked into the engine.

After 3 months of missing out of fun times with Bugsy I finally know what the problems is and know how to fix it. Hopefully with no broken exhaust studs as well.
 

Midget78

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Jim, Although it seems for you to have been a rough ride to this point, at least now after some good wrenching you have a light at the end of the tunnel. The only thing I can say is take your time. Being from good ol north east Ohio, Mr. Winter is waiting of course to depress the area once again real soon. I moved out a little over a week ago to South Carolina with a family member just so I dont have to witness it anymore.
Good luck and I hope the job goes smooth with no bloody knuckles.
 
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Jim_Gruber

Jim_Gruber

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Sweendog,

Hey hope Job Hunting situation goes better in the Carolinas. You and I were in the same situation but I was able to catch on to a Contract position in Columbus. The daily commute almost 200 round trip sucks but after 6 months of unemployment the pay rate compensates for the sucky commute. Talk of position becoming permanent.

Lots of PB Blaster, patience, tighten first before trying to loosen header bolts.

Take care Sweendog. Hopefully things are looking up personally and professionally.
 

lesingepsycho

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Hey Jim,

That's great news for you! As Sweendog said, light at the end of the tunnel is always a good feeling.

I actually had leaks on two manifolds this summer. The first was on my Mom's car and she was experiencing the same symptoms you are describing. It had me a bit stumped until I pushed up on the piston lifter rod and the whole manifold moved! I gave her a good tightening and she was back on the road for the rest of the summer. One of the manifold studs was starting to strip however so I plan on giving her all new studs, nuts and a gasket this winter.

My issue started with a bad gasket. It had a nick in the manifold gasket right at the bottom of the front intake runner. Hard to see but the spray found it easily enough. I tried "gooping" it but that didn't work. After I fixed that with a new gasket (and let me tell you, fresh studs with brand new brass nuts makes it a SNAP!) I checked and all the vacuum leaks were gone. I was still having the sputtering issues but it turned out in the end to be a mixture issue. I wasn't running the carbs rich enough to keep up with the increased airflow of the velocity stacks! A few extra turns on the jets and my car has been running pretty well all week!

Good luck!

JACK
 
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Jim_Gruber

Jim_Gruber

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Where did you get the manifold studs from? Likely the usual sources. Not something I want to risk snapping a stud off to remove. Will be chancy enough removing the bolts. Taking things apart as we speak. PB Blaster at work.
 
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Jim_Gruber

Jim_Gruber

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OK all came apart without issues. One stud unscrewed that I'll replace, the rest cleaned up nice with die and Dremel tool. A couple of questions. Metal inserts that go between block and intake manifold. Little springs in there .One seemed to have significantly large end gap than the other and the end gap was on the side where it was leaking. Any issue? Should they be replaced or not?

Carb Gaskets, are these standard type gaskets I can find at PEP Boys or MOSS Type parts only?

This is an 1098 engine. Are there gaskets on the side covers I should replace while I've got it that far apart?
 

jlaird

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Those rings are nothing more than alignment rings, no sweat.
 

dklawson

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<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">This reply is a safety warning concerning the use of brake cleaner.</span></span>

Jim_Gruber said:
Get out the spray can of WD-40 or Brake cleaner and see if you find a leak. Brake cleaner sprayed around the intake manifold will manifest itself as either a huge plume of white smoke coming out of the exhaust as it is sucked into the engine.

I generally do not post information that I do not have personal experience with but the information in the link below was brought to my attention recently on another board.

For your own safety, do NOT use brake cleaner anywhere that it might be exposed to flames and ALWAYS avoid any white smoke it produces.

Read the safety label/warning on the can. It will advise you that brake cleaner can break down into some seriously toxic chemicals if exposed to high heat or flames.

Article here:
https://brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
 
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Jim_Gruber

Jim_Gruber

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OK I'll heed safety precautions. I agree, don't breathe the stuff and certainly take safety precautions. Thanks for the tip.
 

jlaird

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Hay, I have used it forever and I turn 71 tomorrow. Just use it with a bit of caution like all the stuff we use.
 

Midget78

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Jim, Thanks for the support,....try and keep good ol' Ohio in check. I know up there in Cleveland they need all the help theycan get. Weird thing is I miss it a bit but Im sure once I get used to this southern lifestyle and the warmer winter I'll change my mind.
As for the WD-40, I recall in my engineering adventures it meaning "Water Displacement at/or @ 40% at average temperature & elevation. If you do some quick research I believe its primarily an alchahol base. About as harmful as anything else in the world. Brake cleaners I do know use a form of WD-40 to build their recipe off of. Just my 2 cents.
Take care my friend and hang in there up there. For every man with a job up there is a plus to slowly get things back on track and maybe get back to what it should be.
 

dklawson

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I posted my warning and the link because the article discusses <span style="font-weight: bold">non-standard uses</span> of brake cleaner and the implications of exposing it to open flame (like hot leaky exhaust) in particular. I was NOT posting this as a warning concerning the general and more common uses of brake cleaner as the manufacturer intended.

Read the article I posted the link to. Take note of the author's comments concerning "white smoke" produced when he hit the brake cleaner with his welding torch. To summarize the article here, use brake cleaner as intended and do not expose it to high temperatures or open flames as it may break down into phosgene (for which there is no antidote) which will do serious damage to your body in general and your lungs in particular.
 
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Jim_Gruber

Jim_Gruber

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Phosgene from Brake Fluid. Oops. Not good at all. You get similiar nastiness trying to cut foam sheets with a hot wire knife.
 

dklawson

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Jim_Gruber said:
Phosgene from Brake Fluid. Oops. Not good at all. You get similiar nastiness trying to cut foam sheets with a hot wire knife.


Not from brake fluid, from brake cleaner. After I read the article I posted the link to I made sure to read the warning on the back of the can of brake cleaner I have in the garage. Yep, phosgene.
 
G

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supposedly you can use the nonclorinated stuff without killing yourself.

My grandfather died from using bleach int the bathroom and smoking. ( O.K, he smoked ALOT and was cleaning the bathroom all day.

"When clorine gas passes through an open flame, it turns to phosgene, a never gas used in WWI." That is the ONLY usefull information I learned in my 3 years of Chemistry in college.
 

dklawson

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I also remember my college chemistry lecture that touched on phosgene. I distinctly remember my professor mentioning that it is reported to have a very pleasant smell like "fresh mown hay"... then you die.
 

DrEntropy

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Phosgene,AKA: "mustard gas". Deadly.

Running R-12 (or 22) thru a flame is equally nasty.
 

DrEntropy

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Hmm. Thanks, Steve.

I'll be sure to keep my chlorides separate from my sulfides an' nitrates from now on! :shocked:
 
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Deleted member 8987

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Never Gas?

We had issues with Phosgene on Nuke Boats.
Scubbers and especially burners.
Run Freon through them, as in a major Freaon leak, and that's what comes out......
 
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