Saw the new C6 in the paper today - impressions

[Basil]

I "may" change my mind after seeing the new C6 Corvette in person and maybe a test drive, but my initial impression of the pictures I saw in the paper is

I don't like it...not even a little. I'm sorry, but the front is way too wide and the whole car has lost the sexy, curvy sleekness of the C5 and taken on the angular beefy look of the Aztec.( Aztec =

) From the front the C6 looks like a Camaro! Whoever the lead designer was for this thing should be fired. But it will be interesting to see how the Corvette-obsessed sector of the public reacts to this new variation. I think I'll be keeping my C5 for a while.

Basil

 

[JBsZ06]

I happen to agree with you basil..on the C6 yet I try and remember the reaction on the C5 from the C4 crowd..years back when the C5 released..

 

[MattP]

I saw GM's new tv ad featuring all the new vehicles. I will admit that I didn't like it in stills, but it looked pretty good moving. If I save my pennies, I might be able to get the hot wheel version, used.

On a side note, I dropped my jaw when she who must be obeyed said she liked that new retro look truck.

MattP

 

[Basil]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MattP:
I saw GM's new tv ad featuring all the new vehicles. I will admit that I didn't like it in stills, but it looked pretty good moving.
<hr></blockquote>

Well, like I said, I "may" change my mind when I see it in person; but I know either way there isn't one in my immediate future.

Basil

 

[Guest]

The C6 is not a good looking car. I wish they would stop chopping the tail. The C6 design is even worse in how it looks like its chopped at an angle instead of being rounded off at the bottom like the C5.

The front looks like a cross between a Camero and the Ferrari Modena.

The interior is better than the C5 with smaller console buttons. The buttons surrounding the Gauge Cluster are so 1980s econobox styling. I also don't like the ugly steering wheel that doesn't look much different from the one GM uses in the Suburban/Tahoe.

 

[sammyb]

The C6 is typical for Corvette styling: deravative of the popular design cues from the much lauded cars of the previous 5 years. Corvette styling is always behind the curve.

Be that as it may, my feeling is that the C6 is what the C5 should have been. While the majority of the parts are not shared between C5 and C6, it is the least impressive generation change.

I do appreciate the HID exposed lights, although the styling is 100% Viper. The interior is a big yawn (again, what the C5 should have been.) But if they're trying to make people believe the C6 is "world-class quality," why use the steering wheel from the cheapo Malibu?!?!

I won't be trading in my 2002 C5 anytime soon. I happen to like its smoother lines and larger butt. The C5 is sexier to me, while the C6 is more athletic. Either way, they're very similar.

I think Chevrolet missed the boat in really creating a car that Porsche and BMW guys would buy. But, as with all Corvettes, every one will sell for the first 3 years, so they'll continue to pat themselves on the back.

Plus, nothing in the new product will do anything for the horrible Chevrolet dealer service throughout the nation.

 

[ThomP]

More anit-GM rhetoric from me....

This car is a perenial Turkey, yes, with a capital "T"! They have given the Corvette huge engines and high hopes for decades, but it can't outperform or outlast those european cars that routinley finish ahead of it in those endurance races of note. This beast will be a sports car in my mind when it can consistantly win at LeMans or Sebring like a Porsche or Ferrari. They have been trying for 50 years and have managed to be competitive what? twice? I don't think it's the fault of the Corvette team at GM, I think GM corporate hasn't a clue how to market or develop automobiles that have appeal. Therefore money can't be invested in making real soprts cars or real passenger cars for that matter.

 

[sammyb]

Well, hold on a sec...
GM has only allowed a factory Corvette team at LeMans four times. (The last four years) They won their class three times. They've been at Sebring and Daytona four times each, and have won their class three out of four at each and won the race outright once. They have come in first and second three times.

There have been privateer racing teams using Corvettes over the years. Briggs Cunningham was one. Corvettes ran in '58 and '60, but these were not full factory-backed teams like the Europeans. In the early 70s, most people remember the Smothers/Heinze L88 cars that did quite well despite absolutely no factory backing.

Factory Corvette Racing has the highest winning percentage of any factory team ever for endurance racing! They're basically running at around 75% winning percentage! (Although it's possible that the Deutsch-Bonnet team might have won their division the three years they competed at LeMans, but I'm trying to check that.) Familiar with D-B?

Porsche and Ferrari have run heavily backed factory teams for quite a long period. They also competed in the prototype division, where Corvette has never played. In the GT division, Corvette can run and beat the Prodrive Ferraris.

For good reason, there are a lot of things one can throw at Corvette, and certainly GM, but picking on their racing record is not one of them.

My comment about Corvettes is the same as Miatas: the only people who pick on them have never driven them. I'll put my C5 Corvette against almost any car. I chose the C5 Convertible over the Porsche 911, because it was faster, more comfortable and MUCH more reliable. (When I test drove the 911 Cabriolet, the "service engine immediately" light came on and the dealer said "oh just ignore it.") I love the Boxster, but I didn't fit at all (I'm 6'4".) My C5 in 2001 cost less than half of a "comparable" 911. As for Ferraris, beautiful cars, but expensive to run and worthless as daily drivers. I drove my 99 C5 every day for 2 years without a major problem (except for a leaking battery that died.) LOTS of minor problems and lots of problems and gripes about incompetent dealers.

But to say that Corvettes aren't real sports cars or can't compare to Ferraris or Porsches is simply not an accurate statement. By the way, I've owned a 911 in the past, and I have hundreds of miles behind the wheel of the Prancing Horse (Testarossa.) They're great cars, but their liabilities expose how amazing the modern Corvettes are, especially for the price.

As for not building cars with appeal. How do you explain the sales of over a million Corvettes? Don't make the classic marketing blunder of believing that just because you won't spend your money on a vehicle, it doesn't mean others won't spend their money on the same vehicle. Corvettes have wide appeal, and vintage Corvettes bring eye-popping money at auctions like Barrett-Jackson from buyers who also collect Porsches, Ferraris, and even Classic Era cars like Duesenbergs.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ThomP:
More anit-GM rhetoric from me....

This car is a perenial Turkey, yes, with a capital "T"! They have given the Corvette huge engines and high hopes for decades, but it can't outperform or outlast those european cars that routinley finish ahead of it in those endurance races of note. This beast will be a sports car in my mind when it can consistantly win at LeMans or Sebring like a Porsche or Ferrari. They have been trying for 50 years and have managed to be competitive what? twice? I don't think it's the fault of the Corvette team at GM, I think GM corporate hasn't a clue how to market or develop automobiles that have appeal. <hr></blockquote>

[ 01-11-2004: Message edited by: sammyb ]

[ 01-11-2004: Message edited by: sammyb ]</p>

 

[JBsZ06]

Very well said and the truth be told..this Corvette either the C5 or C6 is an amazing performance vehicle.

Someone may not like its styling and thats fine yet as far as performance goes..this car is one heck of a sports car..

 

[Jim Weatherford]

I personally feel that the C5 is the ultimate Corvette. It is everything Corvette promised to be and much, much more. It's like a roket-ship on rails in the handling department, sticks like glue and the fit and finish from the factory is excellent. I wish they would just leave it alone, they are, if they haven't already ruined it for me. The open roadster is my dream car, well maybe one day I'll have one also.

A agree that American automotive designers are out to lunch. A normal size person can't fit in a Honda 2000 or the Miata and they were designed here in Irvine, CA

The folks I'm keeping my eye on is Pontiac, the new open roadster The Solstus (I think) they are planning for 2005 looks pretty interesting and if they can keep their projected price point of $20K, they will have a very nice car on their hands and I'll have one in my garage.

[ 01-12-2004: Message edited by: Jim Weatherford ]</p>

 

[ThomP]

Facinating to see someone reads my tripe!

sammyb; I see you have a personal investment in the Corvette, don't be too insulted by my "noise", I'm just not impressed with this particular phallic device. Besides, I drive a Ford Escort as my daily driver!

However, a Corvette has NEVER won at Sebring or LeMans with or without factory support. Their best finish was third at Sebring in 1973, behind not 1, but 2 - 2.8 liter, naturally aspirated, "privateer" Porsches! They have been unsuccessfully factory entered at this course many times, starting, I think, in 1956 complete with Duntov presiding. The Corvette was the "bright hope" that year at Sebring. The Corvette team reported rack times 4 seconds faster than anyone else during testing. When it came time to race they were much slower and eventually finished 9th.

Corvetts have not been routeinly factory sopnsored at LeMans, because, they are so embarrasing at Sebring, they never leave US soil! Yes, they win their class (sometimes, inclucing Sebring 1956), but the best they have finished overall at LeMans is 10th on a "speed" track, behind Vipers in the same class and with four 3.6 liter Porsches right behind them. Corvetts may have the highest winning record for Factory sponsored teams, but Porshe is the winningist marque: Ever.

Now that I've insulted this False Idol again, let me add that my point is that both Ferarri and Porsche (as well as others) have the philosophy of: We build cars to race; want to buy one? While GM seems to have the philosophy of: We build cars to sell; want to race one? This thought is re-enforced by your mention of the factory going to LeMans only 4 times.

My personal opinion is GM is lost, lost, lost, because of the underlying meaning of this philosophy. They once dominated the industry, but they have forgotten what automobile brands are for. Everyone should not be able to afford a Cadillac (that's what Buicks are for)(Ever seen a Cimmaron?). Show me a Pontiac and a Chevrolet that aren't "brand engineered" like Austin and Morris used to be (Look at what happened to BMC). Oldsmobile expired, just like your grandfather, because it was left to grow old and not innovate.

Corvetts are performance cars; spend the money; race and improve them, make them dominant, not some wishful 7 liter monster, that can't last 24 hours against cars with 1/2 the displacement. Build a compettive Corvette prototype and campaign it to the world championship. Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, Ford (althought not recently) have all done it; what's wrong with GM?

FYI Most laps led @ Sebring:
Porsche - 3997,
Ferarri - 2743,
Audi - 1412,
Nissan - 1111,
...,
Corvette - 112,
Oldsmobile - 13,
Cobra - 1
Cadillac - 1

 

[sammyb]

Interestingly enough, my father was at Sebring in 1957 (I believe) when Zora Arkus Duntov brought out a Corvette for testing. This fairly stock Corvette ran just under two seconds slower than the fastest qualifying lap produced by the leading Ferrari.

As for the Corvette's record: Officially it stands for the factory teams: Overall at Daytona, two GT class wins at Le Mans and three manufacturers and two driver's championships. On the Privateer side: the 68-71 Owens Corning Corvette won 22 consecutive races, a national championship, class titles at Daytona, Sebring and Watkins Glen. Greenwood had two class victories at Sebring.

These are not small victories. GM has no interst in making a Corvette Prototype. Caddy had an embarrassing prototype effort. My gut feeling is that the current prototype class at Le Mans is pretty worthless, although I must admit I 1)Love the Bentley Speed8(it's so gorgeous!) and 2)Appreciate the technological advancements created by the Audi program.

Now, I'm not arguing that GM has not lost their way. I personally will never buy another new GM vehicle. I don't appreciate the way they do business and treat their customers. They generally create cheap cars with flimsy interiors and high price tags. They are backed-up with horrible service.

But, let's face it, Ferrari is the only company left that sells cars in order to race -- and that's simply an ego thing for the Italian government, which owns a majority share of FIAT (which owns Ferrari.) Porsche almost went bankrupt in 1993 because of a lack of sales. Certainly the Boxster and Cayanne are not race cars. The world has changed, so the companies change with them.

GM throws a lot of money at racing -- but it's at its target audience. They don't spend 150 million per year like Ferrari in F1, or $100M for Le Mans prototype campaigns like Audi, because the GM market is watching a bunch of bumper cars go in circles (NASCAR.) I don't watch NASCAR, but as a marketing guy, I understand why they support these venues.

You can't take anything away from Porsche or Ferrari. I could go on for days bashing GM, Ford, Chrysler for all their continuing blunders.

But, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, the current Corvettes are among the best sports cars for the money ever produced.

And keep in mind that when I filled out my owner survey, I was asked if I bought a Corvette because of its image and reputation, and I responded "No, I bought a Corvette IN SPITE of its image and reputation." I have never really been a Corvette fan, but was won over when I test drove every single sports roadster under $100K.

And my '69 big block Vette? I challenge anyone to find a more fun car for the $6,000 I paid for it!

Of course, this is all in good fun.

 

[lawguy]

Well, in about 3 weeks, I'll see it in person at the Chicago Auto Show. I have never been either a Corvette enemy or partisan, but from what I have seen so far, I kind of like it.

I am, however, unlikely to buy one. I just bought a 2003 Chevrolet Venture if that tells you what stage of life of life I'm in.

A slightly amusing Corvette story...at least I thought so. When I was in law school, and my eldest son was under a year old, I participated in a "Moot Court" competition and did a passable job. One of the judges for that event was Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

As some of you may know, Justice Thomas is a gear head and at that time (spring 1998) owned a red Lingenfelter ZR-1 (500 rwhp according to his honor, and it always scared Renquist when he came roaring into the parking garage according to him, but I digress). I sat next to him at dinner and we talked cars all evening.

Justice Thomas told me to get a 'Vette when I finally got a good lawyer job. I told him that with a young family, a 2 seater was probably not in my near future. His reply? "The boy's going to learn to walk soon son, why not?"

 

[BEEJAY7]

Will I like the C5, but I've never seen a C6. For the benefit of us "non-US" listers can someone please post a photograph?.

Regards

Alan

 

[aerog]

The Corvette Forum's Gallery is probably the best place to look right now.

 

[JBsC5]

been enjoying my black 2008 C6 M6 Z51 with NPP for awhile. I just added as a birthday present to myself an all alcantara D shaped DSVette sterring wheel as well the HUD and I had Corvettes of westchester just installed a cOW booster tune. Nice little extras which have made the vette even more pleasurable to drive while maintaining stock OEM like reliablity.

As I get older..the more I enjoy just hoping in the vette with the roof off and cruising..

14 months till the C7 releases to the showrooms! (or there abouts)