Rear Hub Extension Studs

[bucaneer]

Two studs on the right rear hub on my '67 3000 were damaged sometime in the past by someone to remove a stuck nut. Is it possible to relace the studs without removing the axle?

 

[Marvin Gruber]

The axle is very easy to remove. Its the big carrier nut thats a pain if you don't have a big socket. The carrier hub will pull off easy with the right size puller. I have a carrier hub with five good studs if you are interested. To do in place is possible but you may have to use shorter studs going back.

Marv

 

[bucaneer]

Sometime in the past two stubs on the right rear of my 67 3000 were damaged whe someone tried to remove a stuck nut. Is it possible to change the stubs without removing the axel?

 

[Randy Forbes]

Years ago (>30...) before I had a socket to fit the big hub nut, I would use a 15" Crescent wrench__worked great, as long as the nut hadn't already been chewed up with a cold chisel. To do this, I had to punch one (1) of the lug bolts inward, and then afterwards, draw it back up with the lugnut. While this worked with an existing stud, it may not with a new replacement one. And as Marvin alluded to, the stud may not have come out all the way, but only enough to allow me to use the Crescent wrench (memory's a little faded on that detail).

Best to have the paper gasket and rubber O-ring beforehand, and plan to remove the hub. It is a straightforward job, and the brakes do not have to be dismantled to accomplish this; remove the wheel, splined hub extension, the two (2) Philips screws in the drum (which may prove to be the hardest task...), the drum itself (may require slacking off the mechanical brake adjustment__by rotating the square-heaeded screw ccw). The axleshaft is now secured by only one (1) Philips screw__shorter than the other two (2)__and if its stuck to the hub via the gasket and/or sealant. If the side of the car you're working on is higher than the side you're not, you won't lose any fluid from the axle tube.

Then the hub itself: remove the nut (one side has LH threads, just like the knock-offs, and "LH" or "RH" should be stamped on the flat face of the nut). With the nut off, you may or may not need some sort of slide hammer or puller to extract the hub itself; there are several home-brew methods that will work to free the hub from the axle.

The sequence from me removing a hub begins here: https://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index.php/reMKIII/IMG_1962 and the sequence of replacing the same hub(s) begins again here: https://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/index.php/reMKIII/IMG_2302

Might want to consider replacing those oil seals while you're in there too, or have the whole lot dealt with by someone you trust to do the job right!

 

[Keoke]

IM gonna say YEP--:glee:

 

[Rob Glasgow]

Actually the axle is very easy to remove. Simply remove the five nuts holding the wire wheel hub and remove the hub. You will see two phillips headed screws that hold the axle to the bearing hub carrier. Take out the screws and the axle will slide right out. But in order to replace the studs, you need to pull the hub carrier and that is a bit more involved. You will need a very large 8 point socket to remove the hub carrier nut (I don't remember the size but it's big and very hard to find). The studs are pressed into the hub carrier and you will need to press the old ones out and the new ones in. I don't believe there is enough room to remove the studs on the car without removing the hub carrier. And if you were able to remove the old studs, getting the new ones pressed in place on the car would be almost impossible. If you research past posts I think you will find helpful info about the job.

 

[steveg]

I've removed these studs from the carrier by putting them in a big vice with, say, a 3/4" socket over the head to provide clearance and squeezing to push the stud out through the carrier. Installation is the reverse. You can freeze the studs and they'll go in easier.
You have to remove the axle per Rob above. All the suppliers sell the special 8-point wrench. Also the nuts are "handed" and are if I recall marked as such. The retaining tab can be reused several times. When you get the hub out, you can easily withdraw the wheel bearing and check it for roughness. There's a seal in the hub carrier which can/should be replaced as well.
Also suggest replacing the little flathead axle-retaining screws with 1/4-28 flathead socket head screws -- easier to deal with.
Also check the condition of the large o-ring and gasket separating the carrier from the axle. If the o-ring is not rounded and protruding, it may leak in the future.
All these parts except the wheel bearing are cheap -- IMHO they should be replaced anyway if you're taking the thing apart. Supposedly the wheel bearings are very robust, but I and my buddy Peter Roses have each replaced one.

 

[steveg]

This thread seems to be posted twice. Apologies for hogging bandwidth covering stuff Randy already covered.

 

[steveg]

[tried to delete this dupe]

 

[BJ8Healeys]

bucaneer, I have the tool you need to remove the big octagonal rear axle nut if you want it. I put together a kit that is handy for removing the rear axle bearing housing and will loan it to you for the shipping cost. Or, since you are in Wilson, we could arrange to meet somewhere.
I removed the bearing housing and had a machine shop in New Bern replace the studs for me.

 

[Rob Glasgow]

Steve was nice enough to loan me his tool kit last year to replace my studs. Besides the socket and several other bits, he can send you very detailed and wonderful instructions on exactly what to do. He a prince for making this available.

 

[ahfan]

bucaneer, I have the tool you need to remove the big octagonal rear axle nut if you want it. I put together a kit that is handy for removing the rear axle bearing housing and will loan it to you for the shipping cost. Or, since you are in Wilson, we could arrange to meet somewhere.
I removed the bearing housing and had a machine shop in New Bern replace the studs for me.

Hi Steve, I have a '59 100-6 and a '67 BJ8. This morning while on a very short drive, it kind of felt like something was wrong with the steering and then like maybe a tire was flat. I got the car home and looked at the left rear wheel and found it to be at an angle. I jacked up the car and the wheel was bing held on by ONE half loose lug nut!! The other four nuts fell onto the floor. I am still shaking from what would have happened had that wheel fallen off! The brake shoes are saturated with diff oil so I have order new shoes. I also ordered new hub studs and lug nuts. I have the bearings, seals. o-rings and gaskets in my spare parts drawer and will change them. I was able to clean up the thread on the studs with tap and dies and put the wheel back on to move the car around. I realize your post is years old but if you still have any info that might be useful to remove the shaft in order to replace everything, I'd sure appreciate it. I have the socket for the axle nut. Thanks. My regular email is
homerboy488@yahoo.com

 

[BobHaskell]

Hi Steve, I have a '59 100-6 and a '67 BJ8. This morning while on a very short drive, it kind of felt like something was wrong with the steering and then like maybe a tire was flat. I got the car home and looked at the left rear wheel and found it to be at an angle. I jacked up the car and the wheel was bing held on by ONE half loose lug nut!! The other four nuts fell onto the floor. I am still shaking from what would have happened had that wheel fallen off! The brake shoes are saturated with diff oil so I have order new shoes. I also ordered new hub studs and lug nuts. I have the bearings, seals. o-rings and gaskets in my spare parts drawer and will change them. I was able to clean up the thread on the studs with tap and dies and put the wheel back on to move the car around. I realize your post is years old but if you still have any info that might be useful to remove the shaft in order to replace everything, I'd sure appreciate it. I have the socket for the axle nut. Thanks. My regular email is
homerboy488@yahoo.com

Once you've removed the wheel, hub and brake drum, the only thing holding the axle in place is one countersunk screw. Like the two that held the drum on.

 

[ahfan]

Once you've removed the wheel, hub and brake drum, the only thing holding the axle in place is one countersunk screw. Like the two that held the drum on.

So you're telling me that the ONLY THING holding the axle from coming out is ONE SCREW?? What about that big 1 7/8 inch nut? ONE SCREW? Come on!!

 

[BobHaskell]

So you're telling me that the ONLY THING holding the axle from coming out is ONE SCREW?? What about that big 1 7/8 inch nut? ONE SCREW? Come on!!

To get to the big nut, you have to remove the axle shaft. One screw attaches it to the hub. The big nut holds the hub on the rear end housing. Note that on one side of the car, the nut has RH threads, on the other LH threads. The nuts have RH and LH stamped on one side near MOWOG; hopefully on the side facing out.

You'll need a puller to remove the hub from the rear end housing. I made a steel disk with a pilot to fit into the end of the housing with a center on the other side for the puller's threaded shaft. Think I used a two arm puller - a bit awkward with the five sided hub. Used a brass drift and a hammer to remove the bearing - taping on the outer race. If you're replacing the seal, note which way the original one is installed; spring towards the bearing. I made some drifts to install the seal and the bearing (hydraulic press, instead of the hammer). Used the press to remove the old studs and install new ones.

This is covered very well in the factory workshop manual. Pay attention to what it says about the offset between the hub and the distance piece.

When everything is put back together, the axle shaft is held in place by the screw, the two screws that hold the brake drum on and the five studs/nuts that hold the wire wheel hub extension on.

 

[ahfan]

To get to the big nut, you have to remove the axle shaft. One screw attaches it to the hub. The big nut holds the hub on the rear end housing. Note that on one side of the car, the nut has RH threads, on the other LH threads. The nuts have RH and LH stamped on one side near MOWOG; hopefully on the side facing out.

You'll need a puller to remove the hub from the rear end housing. I made a steel disk with a pilot to fit into the end of the housing with a center on the other side for the puller's threaded shaft. Think I used a two arm puller - a bit awkward with the five sided hub. Used a brass drift and a hammer to remove the bearing - taping on the outer race. If you're replacing the seal, note which way the original one is installed; spring towards the bearing. I made some drifts to install the seal and the bearing (hydraulic press, instead of the hammer). Used the press to remove the old studs and install new ones.

This is covered very well in the factory workshop manual. Pay attention to what it says about the offset between the hub and the distance piece.

When everything is put back together, the axle shaft is held in place by the screw, the two screws that hold the brake drum on and the five studs/nuts that hold the wire wheel hub extension on.

Thanks, THAT I understand. The previous post made it sound like it was that one small set screw that prevented the shaft from coming out. That was ridiculous. The only thing I'll have to figure out is how to measure the .0001-.0004 on the bearing.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

You can use an axle (half-)shaft to pull the hub. The shaft disk is rounded (crowned?); after you've removed the screw and pulled it out of the diff, turn it around to face the axle housing so that the studs protrude through the holes, then spin the nuts on and tighten them crosswise (like bolting-up a disk wheel). When you've run out of threads, undo the nuts and put a suitable sized and shaped spacer--pref. a large socket--between the shaft plate and the end of the axle housing; one more time down the threads should do it.

ps. You can use a caliper (with extension) to check the spacer depth; here's a cheapie:

6 in. Digital Caliper with SAE and Metric Fractional Readings

Amazing deals on this 6In Digital Caliper Sae Metric Fractional at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

 

[ahfan]

You can use an axle (half-)shaft to pull the hub. The shaft disk is rounded (crowned?); after you've removed the screw and pulled it out of the diff, turn it around to face the axle housing so that the studs protrude through the holes, then spin the nuts on and tighten them crosswise (like bolting-up a disk wheel). When you've run out of threads, undo the nuts and put a suitable sized and shaped spacer--pref. a large socket--between the shaft plate and the end of the axle housing; one more time down the threads should do it.

ps. You can use a caliper (with extension) to check the spacer depth; here's a cheapie:

6 in. Digital Caliper with SAE and Metric Fractional Readings

Amazing deals on this 6In Digital Caliper Sae Metric Fractional at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Thanks. I have a puller for the hub and will get a new caliper today. What should the measurement be?

 

[Bob_Spidell]

You wrote ".0001-.0004" (1-4 ten thousandths of an inch), but 0.001-0.004" (thousandths) is more likely (sounds about right, I don't have my shop manual handy (I'll dig it up if someone doesn't volunteer it). The spacer is there to exert clamping force on the outer race of the bearing so that it doesn't spin in the hub (Tom Monaco told me he's repaired 'hundreds' of hubs). The possible problem--IIRC Steve G. has written extensively on this--is that some vendors sell a paper gasket that is so thick as to prevent the axle hub from sufficiently clamping the bearing. Some owners prefer to only use a sealant on the hub in lieu of a gasket, or to make a gasket out of thinner paper; that and the O-ring should prevent leaking (I use paper gaskets with a sealant). My guess, and it's only a guess, is that you want the gasket to be the same thickness, or just a 'smidge' thicker, depending on the gasket's composition/compressibility--than the distance the spacer ring stands proud. For example, if your spacer ring--Moss shows different part nos. for different cars--stands proud 0.002" then a gasket thickness of 0.002" would be perfect, but 0.003" might compress enough to allow proper clamping. I use Permatex #3 'Form-A-Gasket' in this type of application, as it works well and it's less likely to break off a chunk (I see no downside to using a sealant here).

I suspect this was an ongoing issue with Austin, or whoever made their live axles--MOWOG?--as the BN1s didn't have the spacer, or an O-ring, and the later cars have one for early 6-cyl cars and one for BN7s-BJ8s. The problem, besides spun bearings, is if you get a leak here it will soak your brake shoes.

 

[ahfan]

You wrote ".0001-.0004" (1-4 ten thousandths of an inch), but 0.001-0.004" (thousandths) is more likely (sounds about right, I don't have my shop manual handy (I'll dig it up if someone doesn't volunteer it). The spacer is there to exert clamping force on the outer race of the bearing so that it doesn't spin in the hub (Tom Monaco told me he's repaired 'hundreds' of hubs). The possible problem--IIRC Steve G. has written extensively on this--is that some vendors sell a paper gasket that is so thick as to prevent the axle hub from sufficiently clamping the bearing. Some owners prefer to only use a sealant on the hub in lieu of a gasket, or to make a gasket out of thinner paper; that and the O-ring should prevent leaking (I use paper gaskets with a sealant). My guess, and it's only a guess, is that you want the gasket to be the same thickness, or just a 'smidge' thicker, depending on the gasket's composition/compressibility--than the distance the spacer ring stands proud. For example, if your spacer ring--Moss shows different part nos. for different cars--stands proud 0.002" then a gasket thickness of 0.002" would be perfect, but 0.003" might compress enough to allow proper clamping. I use Permatex #3 'Form-A-Gasket' in this type of application, as it works well and it's less likely to break off a chunk (I see no downside to using a sealant here).

I suspect this was an ongoing issue with Austin, or whoever made their live axles--MOWOG?--as the BN1s didn't have the spacer, or an O-ring, and the later cars have one for early 6-cyl cars and one for BN7s-BJ8s. The problem, besides spun bearings, is if you get a leak here it will soak your brake shoes.

Yeah, my mistake on the 0.001-0.004 thing. I have the paper gaskets from MOSS so I hope it does the trick. I have bought numerous parts from them that don't fit. I know it happens but they seem to have a pretty bad track record. Thanks for the help. It'll be the project for today.