Rattletrap [ Scuttle Shake ]

[canuck]

My '67 BJ8 is now running beautifully, that throaty purr is unbelievable. On most roads, it is nothing but a pure pleasure to drive, and now that I have new tires, very high speeds are comfortable and without vibration.

The stiff suspension over a pothole or a railway crossing is what I would have expected, with a bit of rattle...but when I find myself on a road under repair, or a road with a bunch of repaired potholes, the car just seems to shake in a very disconcerting way. Feels like it could fall apart, in fact.

First, is this a general experience, and second, if it isn't, where do I start? I have been under the car on a hoist and the frame seems very solid, with surface rust I intend to treat before winter storage. The doors close properly, though the gap is a little wider at the bottom, and like everyone else I have trouble keeping the furflex in.

Do I need to get the body off the frame and start a full on restoration, or do I need to accept this is normal, or are there some typical rubber bushing or other fittings that I can check out and replace?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Chris

 

[Klepper]

Re: Rattletrap

Chris - I have had experience driving 3 different Healeys. My own '59 BN6 that has had a complete frame-up restoration, my Dad's '66 BJ8 that has had a "cosmetic" restoration by us plus who-knows-what-else done by PO's, and my Dad's 55 BN1 that only has 22,000 original miles and has never been restored (original paint too!).

I can tell you that the only one that feels solid over the railroad tracks is the BN1. With the other two, I can relate exactly to that feeling like they are falling apart when you go over the tracks.

John

 

[John Loftus]

Re: Rattletrap

Chris,

If you haven't already, look carefully and test everything in the suspension and steering system. Start the test by getting the car on jack stands with the front wheels in "driving position" (put 2" wood blocks between the shock arms and shock body as the car is being lifted). With an assistant moving the steering wheel, hold one of the front wheels steady and check the play at each steering joint (steering box, idler, tierods) All joints should be tight .. very little play. Try to rock each wheel by holding at the 3 and 9 o'clock position, 6 and 12 o'clock position, lifting the wheel up and down and pulling in and out. You are looking for play (steering, bearings and kingpin). Remove the tire, disconnect the shock arm at the upper trunnion and move the shock arm through the range of motion. The resistance should be smooth and even (no flat spots, no stiff/easy type of motion). Loosen and retorque the bolts that hold the shock body to the chassis. If these are loose and/or stripped then the wheel assembly can move and fail catastophically if they all let go. Check the rear shocks in the same manner. I would also check the motor and transmission mounts. You don't want all that weight moving around excessively when going over the bumps. Let us know if you find anything out of the ordinary.

Cheers,
John

 

[bighly]

Re: Rattletrap

Canuk,

I too have some unnerving moments when on a rough road. It was much worse before my entire front end and rear suspension rebuilds. Just be sure to attend to any potential safety issues and keep on the hunt for and loosening items, shocks, etc.

Tracy

 

[Bruce Bowker]

Re: Rattletrap

Check all bolts and screws everywhere. Bolts for fenders, hinges, windscreen mounts. etc. Everywhere. Tighten if necessary.

Bruce

 

[shorn]

Re: Rattletrap

I just ordered rebuilt front shocks from World Wide Auto Parts (about $70 each plus refundable core), because of the same problem. Hope they help but I won't receive them until next week so I can't say what the improvement will be. Their number is 800 362 1025. There are other places that rebuild them as well (Apple Hydraulics 800 882 7753).

 

[bob hughes]

Re: Rattletrap

Chaps
Unless you are going to provide suspension suitable for racing the shakes and rattles skips and jumps are all part of the charm. My car will skip sideways on a bend if I encounter a bump, I recall one restorer remarking on the fact that the car will move if you run over a bit of paper! I think that he was taking things to the extreme whilst trying to demonstrate the point. Scuttle shake was always a good talking point with the Healeys and my car demonstrates that too.

Bob

 

[John Loftus]

Re: Rattletrap

[ QUOTE ]
Chaps
Scuttle shake was always a good talking point with the Healeys and my car demonstrates that too.
Bob

[/ QUOTE ]
My Healey had scuttle shake when I first bought it. After going through the suspension, steering, hubs, wheels and tires the scuttle shake is completely gone. Many people have done the same thing.

Cheers,
John

 

[Keoke]

Re: Rattletrap

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/savewave.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gifSo Called Scuttle Shake is not characteristic of a good tight Healey.---Keoke

 

[healeys4me]

Re: Rattletrap

My BJ8 is tight over RR tracks and average pot holes. The front and rear suspension has been rebuilt to period specifications. If I hit a large bump at 40 + MPH things get interesting. . . That's the reason we love these old brutes.

 

[shorn]

Re: Rattletrap

John,
What made the most difference in eliminating your scuttle shake? I had heard that untrue wheels & unbalanced tires were the biggest cause, but the shake continues with mine so I am moving on to shocks.

 

[Keoke]

Re: Rattletrap

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Well I guess thats what you get for driving so slow.-Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

 

[SHG]

Re: Rattletrap

Hi all. I just signed up here today, and this thread seems perfect for my 64 BJ8. My hood is rattling a little more than I would like, and I am wondering if there is either an adjustment or some sort of missing weatherstripping that should be there to stop this. TIA.

 

[shorn]

Re: Rattletrap

Moss Motors part # 031-359 is a rubber buffer that attaches to the right side of the shroud where the hood fits. My 64 has two. On the left side is a rubber seal #682-180. The buffers attach with a rivet.

 

[John Loftus]

Re: Rattletrap

[ QUOTE ]
John,
What made the most difference in eliminating your scuttle shake?

[/ QUOTE ]

I did the shocks first because they were completely shot when I bought the car. I then rebuilt the Idler because there was a lot of extra play at the shaft. I lived with the scuttle shake for a year or so. I noticed that rotating the tires would have some effect on the severity and speed range of shake. The tires were due to be replaced, not because of wear but because of age. The 72 spoke wire wheels had seen better days along with the hub splines so I replaced the hubs, bearings, tires and wheels (went with 60 spoke Dunlops) at one go. I had the tires mounted and balanced by an wire wheel expert (Valley Wire Wheel in the LA region). He trued the new wheels slightly and when he balanced them he marked them for which should be for the front, rear or spare. I was going to have the tires shaved if the shake did not go away but it was smooth sailing upon installation. Good luck!

-John

 

[Dave Russell]

Re: Rattletrap

[ QUOTE ]
John,
What made the most difference in eliminating your scuttle shake? I had heard that untrue wheels & unbalanced tires were the biggest cause, but the shake continues with mine so I am moving on to shocks.

[/ QUOTE ]
The awful truth - There is a world of difference between truly "rebuilt & replaced" parts & those that have just been cleaned & painted. Especially frame/chassis parts.

All parts have to be up to original spec. for thickness & rigidity.You can't see rust thinned cross sections once they are cleaned, painted, & installed, but they are still there waiting to cause metal flex & scuttle shake. Just think of it as metal flex.

My only suggestions, check for scuttle shake before you buy the car, if there is even a hint of anything loose, it could cost $10 grand. If you already have the car, eliminate the most likely possibilities first, & replace/repair until it suits you. May still require frame or chassis replacement of thinned parts.
D

 

[Keoke]

Re: Rattletrap

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/savewave.gifSHG/Shorn, There should be "Three" of the small buffers under the hood one on the left side and two on the right in addition to the long seal on the the left side. The only adjustment available, is the spring tension which is part of the hood locking catch.-Fwiw---Keoke

 

[bighly]

Re: Rattletrap

[ QUOTE ]

My Healey had scuttle shake when I first bought it. After going through the suspension, steering, hubs, wheels and tires the scuttle shake is completely gone. Many people have done the same thing.

Cheers,
John

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

New splines+rims and tires eliminated scuttle shake. All renewed front suspension parts made it tighter. Note the I say splines+rims since these should be replaced at the same time. Oh and by the way this also forces new front bearings and races replacement since they are in the splined hubs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif And as Dave illudes in his post best get the spindles magnafluxed while they are off for kingpin replacement. Did I say this all gets expensive with the "as long as I have this off I should replace that" effect.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

 

[Dave Russell]

Re: Rattletrap

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
John,
What made the most difference in eliminating your scuttle shake? I had heard that untrue wheels & unbalanced tires were the biggest cause, but the shake continues with mine so I am moving on to shocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

This one from Hendrix has been posted before, but another time won't hurt anything. Covers drum balancing which appears to be a problem in many cases. One of the cheaper "corrections" also. Most local machine shops should be able to do it. Maybe it will become more well known if it helps.
https://www.hendrixwirewheel.com/drums.html
D

 

[HealeyRick]

Re: Rattletrap

After complete rebuild of front suspension and wheel bearings I still had scuttle shake on my BJ7. I had new tires on the original 60 spokers. Subsequently ordered new Michelins with 72 spoke Daytons from Alan Hendrix who shaved and balanced the tires upon installation. Also did the drum brake balancing at the rear. A new balanced driveshaft was installed when I installed the Smitty's 5 speed. Now my scuttle shake is gone. My guess is it was the wheels and tires that did it, but can't say for sure.

Happy Healeying,
Rick