question about splined hubs

[eurobiketrash]

Given what it took to get the two rear hubs off the car for replacement, should antiseize be used on the special nuts that sit down into the hub to secure it? (The old nuts had galled into the metal on the rounded side) Doesnt seem to say use it anywhere and not sure if it would make the torque on the bolts iffy.

 

[Randy Forbes]

There's barely a single fastener on my Healey that does not have either Kopr-Shield or Loctite on it.

To answer your question though, those nuts are not much different than a disc wheel lugnut, and lubricating the conical mating surface is a NoNo. You can lubricate the threads, but leave the tapered surfaces clean and dry.

 

[RAC68]

In response to Ian in his “Coppereeze” antiseize on hub lug post:

<span style="font-style: italic">Hi Ian,

Don’t use any non-seize on your wheel studs as the nuts will loosen when driving. The locknuts are there to prevent the lug nuts from loosening and you will be defeating their function. I know this from experience when I applied anti-seize on my hub studs and, just driving slowly, started to hear wheel clunking when the lugs began to loosen and the hubs started moving. </span>

Hope this helps,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[Legal Bill]

How come the wheels don't fall off all my cars?

 

[RAC68]

LUCK

Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[Legal Bill]

I've been lucky for 25 years. That was when I started using anti seize on all my wheel lugs. They have never come lose and frankly, if it is applied only to the threads, there is no reason why they should. In fact, studies have shown that a lubricated fastener tightened to the same torque as an un lubricated fastener has up to 50% more holding force applied to the object being fastened. The lubrication elimatates much of the thread friction and allows the force being applied to more fully seat the fastener.

 

[RAC68]

Hi Bill,

I have no problem if you feel it is safe and works for you and maybe my experience was a unique happening. Based upon the facts presented, what bolts or conditions would you not use anti-seize on?

All the best,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[Bob_Spidell]

I've been lucky for 25 years. That was when I started using anti seize on all my wheel lugs. They have never come lose and frankly, if it is applied only to the threads, there is no reason why they should. In fact, studies have shown that a lubricated fastener tightened to the same torque as an un lubricated fastener has up to 50% more holding force applied to the object being fastened. The lubrication elimatates much of the thread friction and allows the force being applied to more fully seat the fastener.

My opinion/experience as well. The 'extra' force increases the stretch on the bolt or stud, which increases clamping (tensile) force. Saw a demo on Horsepower where they used a strain gauge to measure tensile force with various lubricants; the difference between oils, greases and dry was significant.

The only way I can think that hub nuts would come loose immediately is if they weren't properly torqued or the studs had been torqued to or past their yield point (no stretch left). Also, the nuts should be tightened in a cross-pattern--just like lugnuts--so that the hub will center/seat properly.

Note that nominal torque values are usually less if the threads are lubricated, since the same tensile force is achieved with less torque.

 

[why]

In over 130 car years of owning "vintage" cars have never used either one of these products with no bolt too tight or loose problems.
Jay '65 Healey

 

[Randy Forbes]

Hi Bill,

I have no problem if you feel it is safe and works for you and maybe my experience was a unique happening. Based upon the facts presented, <span style="font-weight: bold">what bolts or conditions would you not use anti-seize on?</span>All the best,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

All the ones requiring a thread-lock (Loctite).

 

[Legal Bill]

In over 130 car years of owning "vintage" cars have never used either one of these products with no bolt too tight or loose problems.
Jay '65 Healey

I wonder where you live that you never had trouble removing a fastener? I sure have. I bought a full size oxy acetelene outfit as much for removing siezed fasteners as for welding and cutting.

As for a fasteners coming lose, many engines require lock tight to keep the fasteners in place and I know form experience that failing to use it will result in rod cap nuts in your oil pan.

 

[RAC68]

Hi All,

A friend visited a NAPA today and took a look at the directions on the Anti-seize can and it said to use on lug nuts right on the label. Based upon this label and the comments of Bill and Bob, I am now questioning my understanding of when to use anti-seize. However, I am still unclear which bolts not to use anti-seize on. I agree with randy that you would not use anti-seize where applying Loctite. But, what about lock nuts where they are designed to create excessive friction to retain tightness. It seems most lug nuts are not lock nuts, however, our hub nuts are. So, wouldn’t the application of an anti-seize defeat the function of the locking nuts?

I love this forum as I always learn.

Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

[eurobiketrash]

I was more concerned about the domed back of the nut where it seats against the hub itself. The old ones were "grown" into the hub. Once I could shock it loose it unthreaded no problem; those that didnt shock I had to drill out of the hub. A craftsman damaged nut tool set helped the most add a piezo torch and a hammer then add a drill

 

[red57]

I'm firmly in the anit-seize camp for lug nuts, especially if they are removed regularly. Never had one work loose, either in racing or street driving. Clean mating surfaces and proper torque (65#) and a cross pattern of tightening sequence are important. As Bob said, you actually get much better clamping force at the same torque because the torque you are applying to the wrench handle is going into turning the nut rather than fighting the friction of the threads/seat. (We lube the threads & seating surface on our knock-offs, don't we?)

Dave