Opinions on 100 BN2 value/body repair issues

[sammyb]

I may have an opportunity to buy a BN2, and I would be doing this as a gift for my father. A car broker I know found and bought this car from an estate and all I know about it so far is the picture, which shows a big bonk behind the front driver's side wheel.

As I understand, the car has sat for a couple years, as well.

Now if this were a TR, I'd be in fine shape, since I know the cars well...Healey? Now we're in unfamiliar practical terriorty (meaning, no hands-on experience.)

So, Healey experts...

Can you ballpark value of this car? (A range is fine -- since I don't have any other info, and we're assuming the description of rust-free/fairly mechanically sound is accurate...Big assumptions, but let's go with that.)

What issues, if any, will there be given the hit with fixing it? I'd take it to a professional, but anything underneath that would complicate the pulling of the dent and repaint?

Any issues specific to a BN2 regarding a car that has sat? I just fired a TR3 after 10 years of sitting with no ill effects...I'm assuming the Austin engine is every bit as robust.

Thanks!
Sam

 

[Keoke]

Well Sam I wouldn't mind parting with 20K for that car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif I should be so lucky--Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[sammyb]

Even with the big crease in the fender?

 

[Keoke]

[ QUOTE ]
Even with the big crease in the fender?

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/savewave.gif
Man, it don't need to even have no fender!---Keoke- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Dont care about the mising splash pan either
P.S.: This ain't no Triumph. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Oh by the way we don't pull dents /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif we pull the fender and remove the dent.- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

 

[Editor_Reid]

I see a couple of warning signs on that car:

<ul type="square"> [*]Incorrect dividing line between the two paint colors. [*]Missing the splash pan. [/list]

These are not huge things, but indicate an amateur and/or professional-but-generic restoration by someone without much knowledge of Healeys. This makes me want to look at things much more closely.

If you can't drive it, you're on very shaky ground. $20,000 would be an acceptable price if there aren't any big- or medium-sized things to spend more money on (and you like the color combo), but of course we haven't seen the interior or engine compartment, or underneath, or driven it, etc., etc.

For a BN2 with much left to do (or re-do), $20,000 would be high. Take a look at the Buyer's Price Guide. I'm the author, and although it hasn't been updated in a while, it's not far off.

Good luck! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[sammyb]

Reid,
Forgive me for my ignorance...but where is the splash pan (or should I say "where is it supposed to be?")

And

As I recall, 100s weren't available in white over red, just just white over black (or all white,) correct?

 

[Editor_Reid]

[ QUOTE ]
Reid,
Forgive me for my ignorance...but where is the splash pan (or should I say "where is it supposed to be?")

[/ QUOTE ]

The splash pan is a horizontally mounted sheet of metal that covers the area behind the front bumper back to the front of the body. It appears to be missing from this car. They are readily available (reproductions, of course), but its absence from this car makes me wonder why. Did the car have a bad front-end accident that left it irreparable, and they didn't know where to get a replacement?

[ QUOTE ]
As I recall, 100s weren't available in white over red, just just white over black (or all white,) correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, although the color combo doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the incorrect line separating the paint colors. The line should not run straight into the front wheel opening on a BN2. It should curve downwards before "spilling into" the wheel opening. I take this as an indication that the restorer did not really know Healeys, did not have the Concours Guidelines, etc. In my mind it raises questions about other decisions made in the restoration. Not a make-or-break item by any means! -- just an indicator to look further and deeper.

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello sammyb, for what it's worth you want to pay as little as possible but that's really up to you. What are you looking for in this car? Is it a concourse winner or a driver, for the latter i don't see you could go wrong. Don't worry about the paint line not meeting at the top of the wheelarch as you are going to fix the dent anyway and to match the paint on the door you will probably paint a certain amount of that as well so at that point with a bit of careful lining up from the rear wheel arch it could be put right. The trouble with this is you then have to do the other side of the car as well and that's where the extra cost of painting comes in so as to speak. The splash panel is something that can be done after the fender is fixed just so long as you get it before as it will have to be painted white to match. It can be fitted later when you remove the bumper to find out why it is bent up. It may just be an adjustment thing but it looks to me like it's the brackets have been bent by the "touch parking" method. Bumper brackets can be reshaped easily enough with the help of a good strong vice. It can take time to do this as you don't want to get too excited about rebending them, you want the overriders to sit vertical not lean in at the top. Failing that just buy some new brackets. Fix the bumper before you put the splash panel on then remove the bumpers and brackets (again) and install the splash panel as it is bolted to the front panel (shroud in Healey speak). To fix the fender remove it. Remove the tire, headlamp, park lamp, there are bolts around the fender flange and screws at the rear face where it meets the door hinge attach point. Remove the air cleaners as it will give you more access to the bolts holding the fender to the shroud, this way if you need you could lay across the car from the RH side (don't let anyone take your photo in this position as it may not look good to your spouse and you don't even want to try and explain it) as this will allow you to get both hands onto the bolts without having to bend over (also not a good position to be caught in). I've done it both ways (without incriminating eveidence to prove it though) it's a matter of having to find the best way for you to get the job done. Just think, everything you remove gives you a chance to learn something new. As far as the engine is concerned, removed the plugs, drain the oil and replace the filter, squirt some engine oil into the plug holes and with a good battery crank it over till you get some oil pressure showing on the gage. Just seeing how much pressure you get will give you some idea of what it's like inside, it may take a while to get the pressure up but there is no reason that 50 lbs can be reached if it's in reasonable health. The usual things like clean out the fuel filters in the float bowls and pump and clean out the bowls themselves, drain out the fuel from the tank, will be enough to keep you busy for a while but getting a proper workshop manual is the most important thing to do. Oh and last but not in the least, welcome to the happy world of Healeys they really are a fun car to own and drive. Regards BUNDYRUM.

 

[zblu]

Re $ theres been 3 over here in west australia advertised in the last week or so, 53 100M for 29k needs work, has been off road for 28 yrs, just needs a bit of work!, a 56 for 28k, and a 56 bn2 for 55k!

 

[Editor_Reid]

[ QUOTE ]
Re $ theres been 3 over here in west australia advertised in the last week or so, 53 100M for 29k needs work, has been off road for 28 yrs, just needs a bit of work!, a 56 for 28k, and a 56 bn2 for 55k!

[/ QUOTE ]

Apples and oranges!

Those prices are in Australian Dollars, no? They are also asking prices, not recent sales. They also reflect sellers' hope-to-get-prices in a country where the Healeys are relatively much more rare, and where you must pay -- I believe -- a hefty import tax on cars. If a Yank bought one, add shipping costs, and then of course it would probably be right hand drive; most people here don't prefer it (I'm a little different -- I have a RHD MGB-GT V8.)

Anyway, comparing prices between countries, currencies, etc. is tricky.

 

[zblu]

True Reid, they are oz dollars, i think the import tax does not apply any more on used cars over 50 yrs old anymore, they were all rhd originally, just changed to lhd for the us market!, was just ot show $ values in other parts of the world. The 56 bn2 for 55k was listed as a rare one with o/d!, methinks a bn1 is a rarer model! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[sammyb]

Thanks everyone.

I was aware that the paint was a little off. I'm used to seeing Healeys and Corvettes with improper two-tone breaks. This one isn't so bad -- and likely I'd have it repainted white over black.

As for the $$$, I'm familiar with the "as low as he'll go" mentality. Just ask anyone in the Triumph group -- I'm known for being the guy everyone seems to hate for finding really motivated sellers.

As far as the price on this one: the guy is asking $13,500, which seems somewhat of a no-brainer. Problem is that the broker has a habit of (how do we say this...) playing fast and loose with reality. That's why I wanted a quick expert's look at immediate problem areas...(Like I should be looking at damage to the front end!)

The car doesn't need to be concours -- but my brother and I are going to either restore my '59 TR3, or get this Healey and make it very nice for my father's 70th birthday. He's been a great father, who could have had Healeys and Ferraris, but instead paid for my brother and I to go through private school/college etc... Time to thank him while he can still enjoy tooling around. He's also retiring this year, so we want something he can take to local field meets and rallies.

 

[Bruce Bowker]

I assume it has a bonnet? Make sure frame is not rotten.

Bruce

 

[Healey 100]

It looks like a very nice car to me. The bodywork looks very well done n this picture. Forget about the dent, splash pan and paint line, these are really minor issues.

I would be more concerned about rust. There can be extensive rust even on Healeys with great bodywork. Check out the frame, floors, the outriggers,the side rails.

Driving it would not hurt either. Noisy transmissions, bad OD's are common, as are cracked cylinder heads. These can be costly to fix.

Make sure it has a hood! These are hard to find....

If rust is minimal and mechanics OK, I think the price is very reasonable.

 

[sammyb]

Does anyone have the commission numbers for a BN2 vs. a BN1 (or does the commission plate say BN2 on it?) I want to make sure that this car is indeed a BN2, not a late registration BN1 where someone unblanked 1st gear.

Thanks,
sam

 

[Bruce Bowker]

There some other minor differences between the two.

Not only does the BN1 have a 3 speed but the shifter is on the side of the tunnel more or less. Also, although it can be changed, the ignition key is closer to the steering wheel and the overdrive switch is up to the right. The BN2 is opposite.

BN2 has wider brake drums. I don't have my book here but can get the measurements if you need.

This last one is not a for sure thing for making sure but early cars did not have the little reflector lights above the taillights. BN2 had for sure. Also the cove line on the side of a BN2 goes all the way to and through the rear fender. BN1 not although there is a transition period where a BN1 apparently could have had these.

Wheel arch was slightly larger on a BN2.

Bruce

 

[Editor_Reid]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have the commission numbers for a BN2 vs. a BN1 (or does the commission plate say BN2 on it?) I want to make sure that this car is indeed a BN2, not a late registration BN1 where someone unblanked 1st gear.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Car No. ("VIN") will begin with BN2 (or BN1). Of course, these Car No. plates can be switched, but from the looks of the car in the one photo, it has a BN2 wing (fender) on the left front. Also, check the engine number (small metal plate on right side -- opposite carbs -- that should have the same six digit number as the Car No. (ignore the prefixes and the "M" suffix on the engine number, which does NOT, by the way, mean that it is a 100M).

 

[Bruce Bowker]

[ QUOTE ]
I want to make sure that this car is indeed a BN2, not a late registration BN1 where someone unblanked 1st gear.

Thanks,
sam

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone did unblank 1st gear it would be almost useless to use 1st gear and you would know immediately when driving. BN2 had a different trans.

Bruce

 

[sammyb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want to make sure that this car is indeed a BN2, not a late registration BN1 where someone unblanked 1st gear.

Thanks,
sam

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone did unblank 1st gear it would be almost useless to use 1st gear and you would know immediately when driving. BN2 had a different trans.

Bruce

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, I knew that one. I've actually driven a BN1, but there was always the possibility of going to buy the car and not "getting it started" and then we'd be in a position if I couldn't tell exactly that it was a BN2, and having to go just on slots for four speeds.

But it looks like y'all have given me the ammunition I need. I very much appreciate it.

 

[healey106]

Dad - Is going to love his new 100!!!
Keep us posted with the progress
Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif