Oil Pump Failure?

[bill_powell]

Sequence of events:

I started up the car as normal this morning. Saw no oil pressure on the gauge, and thought I had heard a metallic rattling sound. Shut down the engine.

Checked the oil level, good, looked at the pressure gauge line, oil present, but air still in the line.

Decided to try a re-start, in case it was just me. Started as normal, engine ran as normal, but same faint metallic rattling sound, no pressure on gauge, shut down engine.

I'm guessing my oil pump failed, and/or decided to shed some pieces. Any thoughts?

Sigh.



EDIT: She's a '69 with a 1275, BTW.

 

[mrsprite]

It could just be a bad gauge. Take the capillary tube for the oil gauge loose and crank the engine over to see if it squirts oil out. If it does than the pump is likely good.....if not then you know it's bad.

 

[bill_powell]

I am pretty sure it's not the gauge. I have did check the transparent line for oil, and it still had air in the line, so I assumed no oil delivery. Combined with that sound, and "oil pump" popped into my mind. So did a vision of pulling the engine. Cr@p.

I had a Mini owner suggest a possible oil pickup breakage. Hmm. Could explain the sound I heard, broken pickup clanking around?

I had to work all day today, no time to investigate. I really appreciate all ideas, so I can put together a plan of attack to find the problem...easy checks first, of course.

And of course, thanks for the input!

 

[mrsprite]

A loose/missing pick up tube would make sense.....that's why I always tack weld those things on! That still means replacing the oil pump though (no reason not to at that point). You probably did no damage to the engine itself so that's the good news.

Good luck....I hope it's an easy fix and not a pull the engine out sort of deal.

**edit** I'm not familiar with the BMC engines.....can you remove the oil pan with the engine still in the car? It may take a little work, but you may not have to completely pull the engine out. I know I pulled the pan off of my Datsun engine with the engine still in place....I had to remove the motor mounts and raise it up, but the pan did come out fairly easily. Just a thought.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Bill -

When you get to the point of doing the job, give me a call. May be able to lend a hand, depending on the day.

Mickey

 

[bill_powell]

Many thanks, Mickey, I'll keep you posted.

We're slammed for the Holiday, so I'll likely not be able to even start looking before Wednesday.


EDIT: Oh, in response, yes, oil pan can be removed w/ engine in the car. Maybe I'll get lucky...

 

[Guest]

This is just me, but anytime I have an oil pressure issue and need to pull the pan, I always put a new set of bearings in. I have no idea how long you ran it w/ no oil pressure. IMO, it's always a good idea to start with new bearings. They are very cheap and you're right there anyway. Fix your problem, then put in a new set and you'll KNOW exactly where you're at. I don't like driving something that I'm unsure if it has been damaged or not. They may be fine, but you'll have the pan off anyway.

 

[bill_powell]

The engine ran less than a minute, all told, but changing bearings anyway is a good idea.

I've still not had a chance to get back home to the car and remove the pan. Likely not before Wednesday.

If I'm lucky that all that's happened is the pickup tube gone south, can it be replaced through the pan?

I would rather not be engine-pulling if I can avoid it...

 

[Guest]

I'm unfamiliar with the oiling system in the A series,however; from what I see in the VB catatlog, you should be able to addrees the PICK UP in-car with no problem. Perhaps the only thing that happened is the tubing nut backed off and created an air leak.

The engine ran less than a minute, all told, but changing bearings anyway is a good idea.

...

This is the way I like to explain the ramifications of, "only ran for a few minutes" ( or miles):

Get in your car (not you) and drive down the interstate at 70 mph. Open the door and stick you head out and drag your face agaist the pavement for only a few minutes (or miles)...


(I actually stopped a mini bike with my face in a shell parking lot as a child once, but that's another story.)

I have a 1500, so I plan on pulling the pan and adressing bearings once a year or 5K (I have a severly worn crank.) if nothing more to see how things are. We are truley lucky to be able to pull the pan in-car.

 

[bill_powell]

I get it.

Only too well.

A few (well more than a few) years ago, in the Army, while taking an oil sample on our vehicle, my driver started up the engine while my hands were in there.

It was only for a second.

Lost my trigger finger. Still hasn't grown back, either.

Anyway, thanks for the info, and Happy Independence 4TH!

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Chances are, the noise you heard was a rod knock due to oil starvation, so looking at the rod bearing would be a good idea. yes you can remove the oil pick tube and screeen form the bottom, and I have seen those get cracks in them and cause them to caviatate, also where the tube screws into the block is a brass compression seal, it can crack as well, these are very rare problems, but I've seen them both happen in race engines. The oil pumps rarely ever go bad, the most common failure would be the a piece debris passed thru the pump scaring the the drive gear and cracking the scroll housing in the pump, you can diassemble them easy enough for inspection, but the engine has to come out for that.

 

[Guest]

Lost my trigger finger. Still hasn't grown back, either.

:eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek: :eeek:

so ~THAT'S~ why step 1 in the book is always, "disconnect battery"


Bro, at least you have a sense of humor about it, "hasn't grown back yet." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You're a funny guy, I like you.

Looks like you know what's up ( and know some things I'd rather not find out), let us know what you find.

O.k, you'll have to tell us the whole story now. How on earth did that happen???? What was that guy thinking????

 

[nomad]

In the Army and NO trigger finger!!!

Man, THAT should be good for an early out!!! And a pension!!!

Kurt.

 

[bill_powell]

Hap, thanks for the info; I did have that little rod issue fear in the back of my mind, but one can hope.



The finger story? Okay, you asked for it:


We were in Grafenwöhr, Germany. In April. That time of year, the weather can change quickly, and that is exactly what happened. We went from a nice Spring day, to sudden cold and flurries.

With the extreme change in temperature, we always took an oil sample on the vehicles. Just in case. These vehicles were M113A1 based, for those with inquiring minds. Tracked armored personnel carriers. (M901A1s, if you really want to know)

So:

I'm inside the vehicle, with my driver sitting in his seat. I had the engine access panel off, and was taking the oil sample. My driver asked if he could turn on the heater. He was cold. So was I, so I said "go for it". The engine starts. My glove is grabbed and yanked off my hand. (Probably the fan belt) Lots of blood. Sh!t.


I did not know what had happened exactly, as I chose not to look at it. Figured it was a bad cut or something. Covering it up with a rag was enough for me.


However, as I was put on the Medivac helo, a crewman hands me a styrofoam fast food type box and tells me to 'hang on to this'. The box was taped shut, and it was very cold, so I kind of got an idea there was something in it on ice. Maybe something important.


Anyway, to wrap things up, no pun intended, finger in the box, too mangled to reattach, so now I only count to four on that hand. Well, four and a half; there is a little left.


So:


WHY? Why did this happen? First, you must understand that the heater is a completely separate device from the vehicle engine. You want heat? Turn on the heater. Simple. Hence my rather cavalier "go for it" answer even though I'm doing a puppet show in the engine compartment at the time.


I later asked my driver that very "WHY" question. His answer was simple. "I was just doing what you told me"


And he was. There is a battery gauge on the driver instrument panel. Green zone, yellow zone, red zone. Simple. I had always stressed to my driver, "never, ever, allow that gauge to read too far into the yellow. If it does, start the track and charge the batteries".


My driver saw that the gauge was reading red, so he kicked over the track's engine to charge up, then kicked on the heater. Only thing was, of course, the gauge was only reading red because the 'main' switch was off and the track wasn't running. I guess I forgot to explain that part to him.


And so I ask you: How can one be mad at a Troop over that? He was trying to do his job, and trying to do it right. He was a good kid, and so, no, I wasn't mad. Not at him, anyway.


And there you go; end of the finger story. Again, No pun intended.


EDIT: Kurt, even worse, I was Infantry. You are correct; this accident later ended my career. Still pi$$es me off.

 

[bill_powell]

Re: Oil Pump Failure? RESOLVED

We've been so busy I was not able to get to the car until yesterday.

The situation was a result of two completely unrelated events. Typical LBC.

A piece of debris had clogged the line to my oil pressure gauge. The noise I described turned out to be a loose mounting bolt to my electric fan.

Seeing that empty translucent pressure line, combined with the noise, had fooled me. I'm blaming my gray hair on this one. Or perhaps I'm just an idiot.

So all is well! Thanks once again for all the input.