New Oil Formulation Problems Or What?

[DougF]

I was helping a friend over the weekend with his engine trying to ready it for the trip to Pittsburgh for British Car Day. We had to put a HeliCoil in the head for a pedestal stud because the PO had stripped the hole.
Once the job was successfully completed, we set the valves. After several minutes of running, the engine started to clatter. Upon investigation, we found that the gaps had closed on several valves.
He had sent the rocker shaft and tappets for rebuild to the left coast a month ago and we were installing them when we found the strip problem. He had sent the works out for rebuild because of an increase in valve/tappet noise.
This is not a Triumph, but engines are engines. When we found the stripped stud, I believe the final torquing was it's last call, he eked it in as tight as possible and let it go at about 12-15 instead of 20lbs torque. When we started the engine, we found after shut down that antifreeze was seeping up past the stud, could have been more than a seep we can't say for certain.
Anyway, we found that the engine had made a fairly large amount of oil. We aren't sure if this oil was made over the long or short term, since the engine was making the noise prior to the rocker assembly rebuild.
When he left for the show on Saturday, after a few miles he had to turn for home due to excessive valve clatter. Since the drive, he still can't keep a consistant valve gap.
With this little bit of history, what are the symptoms to the new engine(about 1,000 miles)/new oil formulation problems? Or could this be a problem caused by antifreeze slowly seeping into the sump? The car has maybe 15-25 miles and several minutes idle time since the noise first became apparent last fall. The engine has an 8 pint sump and we are guessing that it made about 2 qts. The car has been on the road for four years. Oil changes annually with no previous traces of antifreeze.
Before we pull the engine, which isn't an easy task on this car, does any one have any ideas? The car is a Healey 100. I know this is the wrong site, but like I said, engines are engines.
He has run the engine from the beginning with 10W-40.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Dave Russell]

The problems are likely related. As I read you, there is coolant in the oil AND the valve lash is changing/increasing. The first few minutes/hours of running are crucial to cam/lifter break in. The lubrication of cam & lifters is extremely critical during this period. 10W-40 would be a poor choice for this critical break in period. Extra poor if mixed with coolant.

You need to find the source of coolant in the oil & check the cam for premature wear.

With the rocker arms removed, place a magnetic base dial indicator on eack pushrod & measure the lift of each cam lobe. The lifts should all be the same within .004". If they are not all the same, cam lobe wear has already started & will only get worse.

If the lifts are all the same & close to original spec, there is a problem in the rocker arms, or the rocker shaft support,

The cause of coolant in the oil is an entirely different problem & may be related to head gasket problems. Some of the head studs & some times the rocker stand studs are drilled into the cooling passages. The studs should be sealed on their bottoms with Permatex #3, Aviation Sealer.
D

 

[MadMarx]

Hello,

the gaps of the valve clearance have closed after a few minutes?

Seems that the valves try to dig through the head?

If the gaps are closed then the valve seats don't last an wear out.

Cheers
Chris

 

[DougF]

The antifreeze source is through the pedestal stud hole.
Thanks for your help. I will find a dial indicator and run the test.
Yes, the gaps closed, though not entirely, after a few minutes of running time.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Did I just read that a Healey 100 has a 2 quart sump and takes 20# of torque for the head?

I would get a second opinion on those numbers from the Healey forum.

Anytime I have a blown head gasket I change the oil (sometimes twice)... too hard to tell for sure what all got mixed in where.

 

[YankeeTR]

I think your camshaft has a few bad lobes.

Camshaft break-in is critical. We've discussed this ad-nauseum over here but you need to run the engine at about 2500 rpm for about 20 minutes to properly run-in the cam and lifters after installation.

The 10W40 oil should not be a problem in itself but it's critical to use a non CF-4 oil as these do not have the needed ZDDP additives required for a flat tappet camshaft. You must use a diesel oil with the right ZDDP package or use an additive fro one of the major camshaft manufacturers or use GM's Engine Oil Suplement (EOS).

Use a dial indicator to determine if, in fact, you have a bad cam.

 

[RobT]

Just saw this:

https://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericar...race=5001199955

Apparently Castrol's 20W50 Syntec has added zinc for "classic engines". Could this be the answer to all our wishes?

Rob.

 

[DougF]

The 100 engine has an 8 quart sump. My friend's engine made roughly 2 quarts. The rocker pedestals were torqued to 20 lbs.
I'm not certain how he broke the engine in. It was four to five years ago. The oil formulation probably wasn't an issue at that point. But the engine has very little time on it. The cam was brand new.
Thanks for the additional information.

 

[TR3driver]

Apparently Castrol's 20W50 Syntec has added zinc for "classic engines". Could this be the answer to all our wishes?

Perhaps. But since Syntec isn't really synthetic oil, I'm staying away from it.

Castrol has argued in court (and won), that basically anything that comes through a modern refinery counts as "synthetic", so Syntec has a "hydrocracked" petroleum base rather than the synthesized Poly Alpha Olefin base that most makers call "synthetic".

Can't find the FTC ruling at the moment, but here's a good discussion that includes the information :
https://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/Fuel_LubricantData.html

 

[ALLAN]

OK, I think I got this oil (can of worms) thing figured out----run one qt. shell Rottela 15-40, one qt. Mobile 1 10-40, one qt. Delo 15-40, one qt. Valvoline 30 and one qt Castrol Syntech 20-50. This would come out to be a 20-40-- synthetic blend --with zinc.


I am kidding, but who knows it might work good.

 

[RobT]

OK, I think I got this oil (can of worms) thing figured out----run one qt. shell Rottela 15-40, one qt. Mobile 1 10-40, one qt. Delo 15-40, one qt. Valvoline 30 and one qt Castrol Syntech 20-50. This would come out to be a 20-40-- synthetic blend --with zinc.


I am kidding, but who knows it might work good.

You forgot the wing-of-bat and eye-of-newt!

 

[swift6]

Or you could use something like Valvoline Racing oil. Full dose of ZDDP as it is not 'designed' for highway use but specifically for high performance engines with solid lifters. Besides, who will pull you over and check the formulation of your oil?

 

[Dave Russell]

For anyone who is not aware:
Valvoline sells "Racing VR1" part #VV211, which is not particularly high in ZDDP content. They also sell "Valvoline Racing" "not street legal" part #VV851, which also does not have much ZDDP, even lower than the street oil, but does have more calcium & phosphorus. It is much higher priced & must be changed frequently because it does not have the detergent & long life additives found in "street" oils.

IMO, Valvoline keeps changing their advertising & their published specs (MSDS) have not been updated for several years.
D

 

[70herald]

OK, I think I got this oil (can of worms) thing figured out----run one qt. shell Rottela 15-40, one qt. Mobile 1 10-40, one qt. Delo 15-40, one qt. Valvoline 30 and one qt Castrol Syntech 20-50. This would come out to be a 20-40-- synthetic blend --with zinc.


I am kidding, but who knows it might work good.

You're kidding, but there are those out there who will take you seriously /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif This really is not a good idea since the additive packages really need to work together, and randomly mixing oils are not likely to result in good behavior.

The opinion on the "oil forums" it that Rottela or other diesel specific oils are probably the best. Note that High mileage oils also tend to be high in ZDDP.