Need Live Help

[Tinster]

I need some right now help. I'm in the middle of
installing the new water pump for the TR6.

I have been busting my hump to get this beast in
the street because there is a forum member on island
right now and another arrives Sunday night.

It would be just fabulous for two eye witness accounts
of forum members driving the infamous Crypt Car.

The water pump is the final component keeping the car
off the street. It might run a bit crooked but it should
run a short distance for our forum friends.

I cleaned off the old pump gasket very well. I ran a 5/16"
die over the three studs, I have 3 ea 5/16" nuts and lock washers and I have a Moss Motors pump and gasket.

I have a can of TRBill's famous Permatex Super 300 Form-A-Gasket.

How do I install the Permatex, gasket and pump?

1. Permatex on pump face and engine block with gasket in
between?

2. Permatex wet both faces or dry on one and wet on the other?

I'm fine with the mechanics of the pump install.
I need help with the Permatex.

I'm sitting at the computer waiting for this one.

Thanks guys!

dale

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Really does not matter as long as the sealer is on both sides of the gasket.

I would put the gasket sealer on the head first, then place the gasket on, then gasket sealer on the gasket, then the pump.

 

[Tinster]

Thanks Ray,

I was hoping you'd reply.

I'll go proceed with the install.

Hopefully I can report later we are in the street!!

d

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Glad to be of help. Just sitting here waiting for breakfast.

 

[RonMacPherson]

What Ray said, should work fine. I being a persnickety person, usually put the sealant, light coat, on the component being regasketed, then the gasket, then sealant on the gasket, then offer it up to the main unit. In this case the water pump to the engine.

But Ray's submission works fine. Kinda like, when you rotate tires, do you start on the left front corner, right front corner, etc... Doesn't really matter cause you reach the same goal.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

OK - at the risk of opening up a can of Campbell's Cream of Worm, here's my method:

I was told long ago to put gasket sealant only on the part being offered up (don't you love putting it that way: "Pardon me, Mr. Engine Block, would you like this oil pan?"). The reason being that it's much easier not to have to clean old sealant from the block, and you're less likely to have bits and pieces of it infiltrate the block. The logic, I guess, is that the block surfaces are more likely to be true than the ancillary pieces, and don't need the sealant anyway.

That's the practice I use, and have never had a problem.

Thoughts?

 

[TR6oldtimer]

I have actually rebuilt a TR4 engine and used no gasket sealer. Worked fine, no leaks. My father used the same sealer method of one side only as you described. The reason was not to prevent leaks, but to hold it in place. Now I use gasket sealer on both sides, just to be safe. I fear I have become paranoid in old age.

 

[TR3driver]

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif Gasket sealant is just "belt and suspenders", it should actually seal just fine with nothing but a new gasket.

Personally, I prefer to smear a thin layer of Hylomar on both sides of the gasket before installing.

 

[martx-5]

Let's face it, it's the gasket that is supposed to do the sealing. I swung wrenches for twenty years and never used gasket sealer...just some grease to maybe hold it in place. Never had any problems.

 

[Tinster]

Well, I'm afraid I have some rather grim news
to report on the latest attempt to get this
wicked, evil beast of a demon car in the street..

The installation of the new pump went very well.
I installed the air cleaners, reconnected the battery,
(instantly a 20 amp fuse blew) pumped the gas pedal
a few times, pulled out the choke and the car
actually started on the first grind.

No fuel gauge or temp gauge so that will help track
down the short.

Once the car warmed to where it would hold idle,
I stepped out to view the new water pump for leaks.

BLARGH and double BLARGH!!!!!!

Coolant fluid streaming out of a hole in the engine
block (or head?)onto the garage floor. So I guess
the new pump works pretty good but the engine is broke.

Wendy has drawn a very firm line in the sand. The
car needs engine work? The project is abandoned and
the Crypt Car gets towed to the crusher.

Here's a photo of the latest problem.
These constant break downs are REALLY getting old.

[/img]

 

[Mickey Richaud]

OUCH!

Did you leave a bolt out?

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Dale, there is supposed to be a bolt in that hole. It holds on the pump housing.

 

[Tinster]

Bolt for what Mickey?

I had no parts or bolts left over. A simple
water pump change out.

I backed out three nuts- I installed three new nuts.
Now there seems to be a hole in my engine.

Go figure? I am totally disgusted just now.

d

 

[TR3driver]

Yup, bolt missing.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Yup, bolt missing.

There ya go. Find it, or a replacement, slap some silicone sealer on it, and finish it off with a Margarita!

Can't tell you how many times I've done much the same thing!

 

[Tinster]

Ok, so once upon a time, prior to my ownership,
there was a bolt in it. I also looked it up.

It appears to have been Pedro-ized.

It is now a smooth barrel sleeve of some sort,
2.5" in depth with no threads whatsoever.

The diameter of the sleeve is slightly
larger than 5/16". It tried to put a 3"
by 5/16" UNF bolt and it grabbed nothing.

I'm just guessing here, that Pedro's junkyard
mechanic managed to strip the threads, pounded
in some kind of sleeve and then "corked it"
with something so it would not leak coolant.

Any ideas what I should attempt?

This is bloody well depressing.

d

 

[GB1]

Dale

Where is the bolt, what is it holding, how much stress will be placed on it, is it in metal, cast etc. ?

More info please.

Pat

 

[Tinster]

Pat,

I don't have a clue!

Something to do with the water pump housing.

For all I know, the original bolt might be sheared
off 2.5" inside the piece.

d

 

[martx-5]

Ok, so once upon a time, prior to my ownership,
there was a bolt in it. I also looked it up.

It appears to have been Pedro-ized.

It is now a smooth barrel sleeve of some sort,
2.5" in depth with no threads whatsoever.

The diameter of the sleeve is slightly
larger than 5/16". It tried to put a 3"
by 5/16" UNF bolt and it grabbed nothing.

I'm just guessing here, that Pedro's junkyard
mechanic managed to strip the threads, pounded
in some kind of sleeve and then "corked it"
with something so it would not leak coolant.

Any ideas what I should attempt?

This is bloody well depressing.

d

Well, if you tried a 3" 5/16" bolt in there, and it grabbed nothing, then the threads in the block are most likely stripped out. The easiest way to repair it is with a Heli-Coil. You will have to pull off the whole water pump housing to gain access.

Edit: The sheared off bolt theory is another possibility. How far did the 3" bolt go in?? If it went all the way, then it's probably not broken off in there. Probe it with a longer piece of wire and see how far the hole goes through. Then you can easily determine if there is a broken end of a bolt in there.

 

[Tinster]

I had rather a grim experience with heli-coils.
I think I'll take a pass on anything to do with them.

This is starting to look a whole lot like the beginning
of major engine work. And major engine work is not in the cards.

d