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Need Bugeye vin tag & title

Steve P.

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Hi Guys,
Bought a Bugeye many years ago from a guy that was moving. It was a basket case
and missing many parts including the VIN tag. The seller said he had the VIN tag
and title packed and would send it once he moved and dug them out. Of course he
never did. I know he was the owner and the car was regitsered beacuse I had seen
it on the road for several years.

If someone out there junked out a Bugeye that was beyond help and still has
the VIN tag and a valid registration, I'd be interested in buying it. Thanks!
Chomping at the bit to complete the restoration I started years ago but
no point unless I can get it titled. And I have already tried the out of state
title dealers....the CA DMV won't accept them.
Steve
 

Basil

Administrator
Staff member
Boss
Offline
I am pretty sure what you propose is highly illegal. My advice is talk to your DMV, explain situation, and see what other options might be available.
 

smaceng

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
Another alternative is if the right door tag is still on the car. It has the form of BAE xxxxxx. This would be the "Body number" which would allow you to get a Heritage Certificate. The HC would include the proper Chassis # (CA uses this as the VIN #) for the car. Maybe this would be enough for our CA DMV.
I have used the Heritage Certificate on my TR6 to change an incorrect year of manufacture from 1973 to 1970.
Scott in CA
 

Gerard

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
You're going about this all wrong, and as already stated quite illegal and could get you a heap of problems. It's quite unnecessary since, as Scott suggested, what you need to do is get a BMIHT certificate using the BAE number on the right door post (hopefully you have that?) You can also use the engine number if it's original to the car. CA DMV will accept the BMIHT certificate as official documentation to issue a title. I have done that on a couple occasions without issue except that you will also need to have the car also visually inspected either at DMV offices or by appointment with CHP offices before they will issue a title.

I have links to BMIHT in my Tech section unfair "Info/Tuning"

https://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/tech.htm

direct link

https://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/bmihtWS.htm

Also: Correct reproduction chassis plates can be obtained from Clarke's Spares with a valid title.
 

nomad

Yoda
Offline
You're going about this all wrong, and as already stated quite illegal and could get you a heap of problems. It's quite unnecessary since, as Scott suggested, what you need to do is get a BMIHT certificate using the BAE number on the right door post (hopefully you have that?) You can also use the engine number if it's original to the car. CA DMV will accept the BMIHT certificate as official documentation to issue a title. I have done that on a couple occasions without issue except that you will also need to have the car also visually inspected either at DMV offices or by appointment with CHP offices before they will issue a title.

I have links to BMIHT in my Tech section unfair "Info/Tuning"



https://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/tech.htm

direct link

https://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/bmihtWS.htm

Also: Correct reproduction chassis plates can be obtained from Clarke's Spares with a valid title.

You know this whole issue has been hashed over before and it blows my mind that its not OK to use different numbers but is OK just as long as you can show you have the car and it's numbers are correct. How does that prove the car isn't stollen???? I would think that is the ONLY issue!!

It may be illegal to change identity's but I'm sure it's been done many times.

Kurt.
 

nomad

Yoda
Offline
In the word's of Rosanne Rosanadana: Never Mind!

I imagine all the DMV is concerned with is what numbers have been REPORTED stolen and that would be on record with the first issue of a licence but I still can't see why thy would have to see the car and the BMIHT certificate. Just the number's on the car should be sufficient.
 

bugedd

Jedi Knight
Country flag
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One thing I did was call California DMV about a VIN to check history on it, make sure its clean so if I registered it I'd have no problems. The told me after 5 years of no registration, they fall out of the computer system. So the tag I called them about had been out of the system for who knows how many years and had no history so it could easily be registered. As mentioned before, you can get new VIN plates to stamp. What would happen if you called them about a random chosen number, and if they report no history on it, stamp a new VIN plate with that number and call it good?
 

smaceng

Jedi Knight
Country flag
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So Steve, do you have any documentation from the prior owner? Like a bill of sale? Do you know any of the numbers on the car? Can you get in touch with the previous owner? Depending on what information you have, it maybe very doable, or you may be up the preverbal creek without a paddle!
Scott in CA
 

Gerard

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
You know this whole issue has been hashed over before and it blows my mind that its not OK to use different numbers but is OK just as long as you can show you have the car and it's numbers are correct. How does that prove the car isn't stollen???? I would think that is the ONLY issue!!

It may be illegal to change identity's but I'm sure it's been done many times.

Kurt.

Kurt,

That's true, however hence the required visual inspection at a DMV office or by the CHP. That doesn't man that a stolen one might not sneak by, but that's the purpose.
 

Boink

Yoda
Bronze
Country flag
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This is what they do in Oregon. They want to inspect to be sure what they are registering. When I registered a California car I also had the history of the car (including a letter from the last registered owner - which I was told was helpful because the original registration had long expired).
 
OP
Steve P.

Steve P.

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Guys,
Thanks for the suggestions. Kinda thought this would be marginally legal but I know
others have done this with no problems. The body tags are on the car so I'll try the BMIHT
route. Dealing with the CA DMV has been incredably frustrating, time consuming and expensive
in the past. Anything other than a straight ownership transfer with clear titles and they
seem to start making up their own, often conflicting rules.

A bit of advice for people buying old cars....no title or vin tags, pass on the deal. Not worth
the hassle.
Steve
 

Gerard

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
Guys,
Thanks for the suggestions. Kinda thought this would be marginally legal but I know
others have done this with no problems. The body tags are on the car so I'll try the BMIHT
route. Dealing with the CA DMV has been incredably frustrating, time consuming and expensive
in the past. Anything other than a straight ownership transfer with clear titles and they
seem to start making up their own, often conflicting rules.

A bit of advice for people buying old cars....no title or vin tags, pass on the deal. Not worth
the hassle.
Steve

Steve,

It's true that many DMV employees are not trained or well informed on their own rules. Each person you talk you may give you a different interpretation of what needs to be done. That's why it's best that you show up completely armed with the paperwork needed, including a copy of the requirements printed from the DMV web site. Everything you need to know is there, so if sometimes tells you something incorrect, you will know and be armed with "backup". If you don't like who your dealing with, ask to speak to a supervisor or try a different DMV office. The supervisors usually know what needs to be done and will handle it efficiently. What I've told you here and previously comes from years of experience doing this, almost exclusively with British cars. A few years ago I titled my 1946 Austin, which had not been titled since 1951. Last year, I titled a 1937 Chevy that was last registered in 1997. It's neither a hassle nor expensive if you know the correct procedures. If you show up with a BMIHT Certificate (I always bring a good photocopy and offer it to them to keep), and the proper affidavits (depending on how and where the vehicle was last operated), a bill of sale, (I usually use the DMV doc REG135- they like when you use their own documents), you should not have any problems. REG 135, as well as other forms are available for download online at https://dmv.ca.gov . Other than that, the only other things necessary for either a long not operated vehicle, an out of state vehicle, or a missing title is they want a visually inspection.

If the car is drivable, but does not have a valid registration or has no plates, DMV will give you a temporary operating permit to drive the vehicle to the DMV offices. Otherwise, it can be towed (i.e. on a trailer) to the DMV or CHP offices. CHP requires an appointment. Also, local police departments can do the inspection, but have the document needed already printed (again from DMV website) for them when they show up. Some police departments have a designated person for that purpose, so you may need to find out who that is or they will tell you "we don't do that". In San Francisco, there are only two designated officers in the entire city trained to do that. OK, so it can be a bit of a hassle, but not so much if you are prepared. Do your research. :encouragement: If you have other questions, I'll try to answer them.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Guest
Offline
What would happen if you called them about a random chosen number, and if they report no history on it, stamp a new VIN plate with that number and call it good?

A free meal plan, bunk mate and lessons on how to braid corn rows....:smirk:
 

Jim_Gruber

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
As someone else has mentioned already, the biggest issue may not be with the DMV but with your insurance company as you try to buy insurance with a car that has a Vin number that they do not recognize as a valid number.
 

mxp01

Jedi Warrior
Country flag
Offline
Gentlemen:

This is a tricky issue because it does set following the rules against actually getting a car on the road. I was at a car show, looking at Minis, when I noticed some odd things, especially modern-ish (relatively speaking) electronics. Totally confused, the owner eventually approached me and explained that this was a Mini from the 1990s, but he managed to get it on the road by purchasing a rotten, broken down Mini from the 1960s - complete with paperwork - and registered it as such. Here in TN you can simply bring the title to the courthouse and register the car. No one looks the car over. These are generally staffed by over-worked title clerks, who are very busy and, very likely don't know the difference between a 1965 Mini and a 1985 Mini. As a pre-1973 car, these vehicles are not subject to emissions inspection, so the cars are allowed to be driven on the road with almost no interference from the authorities.

The owner explained all this to me about his Mini. That was 10 years ago and he owned the car for about 10 years to that point. In my view his keeping the car has presented no foul. Of course there is an issue if he sells it without disclosing the true lineage of the car. On the other hand, a knowledgeable Mini enthusiast should be able to tell the difference between a 1965 and a 1990 vehicle.

I also knew a guy who was building an Arkley but his shell had absolutely know paperwork. He was looking to go the same route. He was planning on keeping the car in the family, but was trying to find a way to get it on the road. A true dilemma.

Finally, I've had sort of rolled all of this through my mind when I was dealing with my BE years ago: I bought a late 1960-build BE that came with an 1100 replacement motor in it and an inoperable transmission. I later put in a 1275 engine from a 1973 Midget, and rebuilt rib case from a 1970 Midget, I added a new differential, the car had a Weber carb, the speedo in the car was not original, so I bought a replacement on Ebay with like 47,000 (or was it 147,000?) miles on it. At some point, realistically, it was hard to tell exactly what year that car was or how many "miles" were on it. But it ran great, looked good, and gave me years of pleasure. I shared the complete history with the guy I eventually sold it to, who still has it today and his wife drives it regularly.

All food for thought,

MXP
 
G

Guest

Guest
Guest
Offline
Using a plate registered to another car is against the law; swapping the VIN tag is a felony from what I've read.

No matter what year parts are installed, the VIN and year of manufacture does not change....
 
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