MKI Engine Rebuild- 260, 289 or 302?

[newmexTR3]

Hey guys,

My dad and I will be rebuilding the engine on a '65 Tiger MkI that we've had for many years soon. We've been debating what we should do with the engine. My dad's friend thinks we should go with a 302. I'm more of the mind to keep it stock and just trick out the 260. If we do go with a bigger block, we would of course keep the 260 in storage in case anyone wanted to take it back to stock down the road.

The car doesn't need to be scary fast, it's fast enough already.


I know this is a subjective question, but what are your opinions and/or experiences? What would you do?



Cheers,
Gavin

 

[aeronca65t]

Thanks to all the Mustangs out there, you can buy a 302 crate motor for about $2650.
It would be hard to beat that price it you did all the stuff involved in a typical crate motor.

For me, the 302 isn't really any better, but getting a complete, ready to run engine for that price would make it my choice.
I couldn't get a Sprite engine totally redone for that price. :laugh:

~Typical Crate Engine Deal~

 

[Bob Claffie]

Ford wasn't nearly as smart as Chevy as far as interchangeability. There are differences between early Ford 260's and later engines of the same family. Some bell housings are 5 bolt and some 6 (I forget which is which). Likewise not all trannys will bolt to all bellhousings, same deal, different bolt patterns. Be sure of what you have and what is available before committing to a particular engine. I ended up having an adapter plate made to fit between the 289 Mustang bell and the Tiger tranny for my swap. Best of luck, Bob

 

[jfslenes]

Although free advice might well be worth what you pay for it, here goes my 10 cents - there was a very hot looking webber like fuel injected 347 on ebay recently for a paltry $10,000 pumping out 484 HP. That should make the gato go. Save your pennies and save your dimes til you can have a better than 409, 347.

In all honesty, it really depends upon your usage and objectives. An engine size other than the original, an engine other than the original is not the best idea if you are a purist. If you aren't a purist, then anything goes. My hi compression .40 bored 289 has mucho grunt. As others have said, a crate motor is an awe3some value. You can also pay extra for the added goodies you might want. Bigger is better!

 

[MikeP]

The thing with the 260 is it's obsolete factor. By that I mean things unique to it like pistons are really hard to find. I'd say go with a 302 crate unless absolute originality is your prime concern. It's doesn't hurt value since so many have done the 302, and even 302s stroked to 347, engine. 5 speeds are ok too since others have already. Basically as long as you're not altering the body to eliminate the ability to go back to stock if you or someone else wants, it's ok to do.

 

[newmexTR3]

Great opinions and perspectives, thanks so much.

How easy is a 302 conversion? What other parts have to be changed or fabricated?


Cheers,
Gavin

 

[MikeP]

It isn't too terribly difficult. Since the 260, 289 and 302 share the same basic outside dimensions you don't need to alter the body to get it in. There's can be some minor work however if you deviate much from the stock setup. For example, transmission choice may require moving the shift lever hole, widening the tunnel, etc.
Or if you change the engine and keep the original 4 speed, generator, and such then it becomes mostly a sourcing parts exercise like finding an adaptor or bellhousing to attach the 5 bolt transmission to the 6 bolt engine.

in short it's not really tough to do but you should think about how far down the path you want to go first and then ask more specific questions.

 

[MadRiver]

IMHO, given the relative rarity of the Tiger, I'd keep the original mill. I've got the original 260 in our Tiger, though it's running with an Edelbrock instead of the Holly (alas, the original carb was long gone when I bought the car), and it's plenty fast.

One thing I've noticed as a Tiger owner is that many (most?) Tiger enthusiasts fall into one of two camps. Now I'm painting with broad brush strokes, so bear with me. The first group (which included my Tiger's prior owner) are interested in the cars because of their quasi-muscle car status and/or their connection with Carroll Shelby. The gentleman I bought my car from had a couple of GT-350s, and he was drawn to the car because of Shelby's involvement in creating the running prototype. For many of these folks, the Tiger is without a doubt slower than their general idea of what a Ford-powered sports car or a Shelby design should be.

The other camp includes folks like me, who approach the Tiger as a British sports car. Viewed through this lens, not only is the Tiger not slow, it is outrageously fast. Our Tiger is roughly the same size as our Triumphs, our MG and our Healey, but it is frighteningly faster. And with that crazy narrow rear track (especially compared with the front track), it is also delightfully easy to break the tail free. Viewed in this guise, I couldn't even imagine the thing with more horses.

But, it's your car, so it should be exactly the way you like it.

Enjoy!

 

[thegoodbeamer]

I have to agree with Bill.
Yes its your car so make it the way you want.I have a mild 351 windsor,5 speed withan 8 inch Ford rear end in the
Lister Tiger clone.We had a V6 in the 62 for 24 years.It is now a 302 built to Ford racing specs.
I don't even speed anymore but I still like that pushed back into the seat rush when I give the cars that pedal to the metal feeling.
It also bugs people at red lights who seem to want to try you out and you just smile at them.
Enjoy the journey

 

[vagt6]

Yours is a very rare car. There ain't many around and demand (and pricing!) continues to grow on these Rootes cars. As such, keeping it close to it's original condition inevitably increases its marketability.

When you're (or, in case you keep it 'til you croak, your estate) ready to sell the car, you'll be VERY glad you kept the engine and the car essentially stock. It will be easier to sell and will fetch more money, possibly a lot more.

Plus, the 260 has PLENTY of power, good aftermarket support, and there's no problem getting key bits for it. It also has more power than most sane folks can handle in its stock form. It's easy to get 175-200 HP out of the 260 while keeping it a streetable car.

Keep it (essentially) stock. You'll be glad now, and later.

 

[Tullamore]

Owning both Alpines and Tigers I have to say the Tiger is much more a muscle car and the Alpine a nice touring car. The Alpines handle and drive so much better than a wrestling with the steering wheel all the time on the Tiger.

My Tigers have the stock 260 with the 2 Barrel and you could never make a Tiger as fast as my small-block AC Cobra, you just won't be able to put big enough tires on it to make it stick. My vote is to keep the original engine and put some aftermarket stuff on it if you want but it is plenty fast as it is.

 

[MadRiver]

I spent some time behind the wheel of our Tiger over the weekend, having finally found the time to sort out the issues that had developed with the fuel system -- the rubber hoses that are part of the piping between the twin fuel tanks had started to erode, and I replaced the aftermarket throw-away fuel pump installed by a prior owner with a proper SU. In any event, I was reminded of just how darn fast the car is, and how much hard work it is. Worse than our Healey (which is like driving a truck), and can't even compare to the absolute ease of our six-cylindered Triumphs.

But I do love the roar of that 260!

 

[vagt6]

These Rootes cars are a bit of a different breed, and were built as such.

Nice syling, fun to drive, brute power wrapped in a pretty package. I cannot imagine that Tigers (and Alpines) won't continue to rise in popularity and value.

Enjoy the journey, Bill (seems like you are!).

 

[MadRiver]

Thanks Mark -- We do love the Tiger, and you're quite right, Rootes machines are a different breed. Some features are ingenious, and others make you scratch your head and think it must be the result of Lord Rootes wandering down to the design floor and issuing nonsensical orders.

The one that causes me the most trouble is the placement of the fuel pump, right above the passenger side muffler, nestled in a spot that receives absolutely no air flow. I've added a great deal of heat shielding to the muffler along the lines of what other Tiger owners have recommended, but even so, we get a lot of vapor lock at low speeds, like sitting in traffic! We recently watched the Get Smart movie and spent the entire thing waiting for the Tiger to hit the road. When Max finally roared out of the Smithsonian in it, only to have it die fifty feet down the road, my girlfriend (an LBC person and excellent mechanic) turned to me, smiled and said "They got that part right."

The other thing that drives me nuts is the placement of the evaporation tube for the fuel tank. It allows vapors to escape into the car, so that my boot always smells of petrol.

A truly great machine!

 

[MikeP]

What you always have to remember is the very short, even by standards of the times, development cycle for the Tiger. And since so few were built over a fairly short period most of the kinks were never worked out. Steering ackermann problems, rear wheel hop, cockpit ventilation, and so on. These days the car would never get out of engineering studios with those problems.

Of course, the shortcomings add character for those of us who own them but to the average person, why buy when more completely engineered car were available.

 

[jfslenes]

So hows the rebuild going?

Hadn't noted your handle - "newmexTR3". Being from NM and one of first cars being a TR#, hope you can bring something back to NM and play at Sandia Motor Speedway's 1.4 mile 14 turn road course. We've had a couple Tigers (just not mine as I'm too busy and cheap to get it ready).

 

[pmenhusen]

I have always had a strong gas odor in the boot of my '63 after filling up. Is there a recommended modification to the evaporation tubing to eliminate this?