I've lost second gear!!

[bthompson]

Driving home from some errands, nothing strenuous, just a nice day out. Pulling away from the last stoplight, Nigel won't go into second. Grind and crash, but she won't go in. Matching revs doesn't seem to make a difference. Third works, but once there doesn't want to go <span style="font-style: italic">out </span>of third without a lot of effort. Engine off, it goes into every gear. The clutch doesn't feel spongier or like it's lost any travel.

Midget 1500 transmissions are still a sealed box of black magic for me, so I'm understandably nervous. What do you all make of this? Clutch, linkage, synchros? Thought I'd ask the Brethren Assembled before blind panic sets in.

<span style="font-size: 8pt"><span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-style: italic">update--</span></span></span>
Took the shift lever apart, and the linkage looks intact and moving like it should. Putting it in second with the engine off and <span style="font-style: italic">then </span>starting it results in grind-n-crash as soon as the clutch is out. Pulling <span style="font-style: italic">hard </span>into second from a dead stop and slowing releasing the clutch will keep it in second. help!

 

[tdskip]

At rest with the car off - does it shifts fine into all the other gears w/out excessive effort?

At rest, but running, how does it shift into all the other gears?

Others may have a better idea of how to check if you specifically lost 2nd gear or it's synchro.

 

[bthompson]

Thanks, TD'; that's just the kind of logical progression I need. Now I just need to stop hyperventilating...

At rest, engine off - all gears seem to engage normally.

At rest, engine running, clutch in - all gears seem to engage normally.

At rest, engine running, easing clutch out - only 2nd gear crashes, all other gears engage normally.

Hauling back on the stick and easing the clutch out in 2nd will grind it into place, and it will stay there while I drive around until I shift out, but it won't go back in. It won't go in at all with the engine above 500 rpm.

In motion, at speed - 1st normal. 2nd not at all unless forced in from a dead stop, then acts normally. 3rd normal going in, a little hard going out. 4th normal.

 

[losmorob]

Is there fluid in the clutch master cylinder? Check the fluid and take it for a short drive. If you pump the clutch 2-3 times before shifting, does that help?

Get under the car, (safely) have someone work the clutch and see if the arm on the clutch slave cylinder on the right side of the transmission is moving, and by how much. Also have Mr. helper pump the clutch pedal up and down and see if that improves movement.

I hope your cars name isn't Nigel Shiftright....

 

[bgbassplyr]

IMO, problem will be found in the gearbox. MC/SC/clutch would cause clash in all shifts. Continuing driving will probably result in 3rd gear failure and, if there are pieces of metal loose in the box, possible disataster if large chunk gets between 2 gears.

Try draining the oil, run a magnet through it, and filter the oil through a porus rag to check for brass (non magnetic). If you can get a magnet into the box, you may be able to pick up chunks that do not drain out with the oil. Or try flushing with kerosine (or other low flamability liguid) by squirting the selected liguid through the fill hole with enough force to flush chunks to the drain hole.

Expect to have to pull the engine/trans to find and repair the problem(s). Transmissions are not self healing. In fact, quite the opposite. Sorry.

Jim

 

[startech47]

Failed circlip perhaps?

 

[Genos2]

Syncro ring is most likely broken&or engaging teeth are rounded off on ist-2nd slider hub. No easy fix, your just wasting time, pull her out,remover cover,good luck . Cheers Genos2

 

[Guest]

yep, time to come out. Sorry, wish we had better news.

 

[bthompson]

Thanks for the support, guys. Guess it's time to get my hands dirty with another new and exciting project. Sigh. At least I got my share of summer driving in!

Northern Tool has a good price on a folding engine hoist, and there's an NT here locally, so that makes things easier.

What have you guys used for an engine leveller to get the angle on the engine when it's coming out?

 

[jvandyke]

I bought a hoist at Harbor Freight last spring for $99 I believe it was, also got a "leveler" but it wasn't a very good non-leveler. I think when I do it again (and I need to rebuild my gearbox this winter). I'm going to try to have the rear jacked up quite a bit higher than the front so I won't have to angle the engine/gearbox quite so much.

 

[drooartz]

I used an Oberg tilt lift when I installed my Bugeye motor. Worked pretty well.

 

[nomad]

O-berg tilt lift(Moss) is expensive but worth the money. You have to tilt alot to remove spridgit engine/gearbox combo. Put the car up on some good safe jackstand's or blocks first. High enough so that you can safely get under it.
Good luck, Kurt.

 

[tdskip]

I got mine here - significatly less expensive from Moss;

https://www.primetimesolutions.com/Oberg-...ELAID=241950182

 

[Sarastro]

I have one of these, too, and it's great. I didn't get it at Moss--as you say, much cheaper elsewhere.

Also, I've seen some nice looking transmissions on eBay recently. Mostly ribcase ones for earlier sprites, but there have been occasional ones for the 1500, too.

In any case, I'd be interested (as would dang near everyone else here) to find out exactly what broke in your transmission. Bummer, I know, but it happens. Please keep us posted.

 

[bthompson]

You bet; play-by-play with pics will be forthcoming. It's probably a few months away, as my bank account has more pressing things to attend to at the moment...Nigel will (unfortunately) be hibernating patiently until I come up with the scratch.

 

[bgbassplyr]

NT's leveler works quite well IMHO.

 

[jvandyke]

I'm interested to know if a total rookie will be able to determine which parts need replacing. My gearbox crapped out as I drove it home from purchase. It was dry (yes, I should have checked it). I'm pretty certain it was just a needle bearing judging by the few parts I found in the drainage (after refilling and draining that is). I hope to tear it down this winter and replace only those bits that need it. If I'm super lucky it will be just that one bearing. The box shifted fine for the 20 miles and 1 hour that I owned it. I drove it another 50 or so to get it home tried filling and running with no help, pulled it, might have done lots of damage with bit floating in there but then again, maybe not.

 

[JPSmit]

Practical Classics recently did a 2 part article on rebuilding transmissions and used a Midget tranny as their example. I am almost certain I have both articles and can scan them if you'll bear with me for a day or two - we're unpacking

 

[bthompson]

I'm interested to know if a total rookie can do it too. :wink:

I'm hoping the damage will be obvious, (e.g. big chunks of gear missing) to point the way. I've been studying my Haynes and the innards seem straightforward enough. Once the thing's out and the top cover is off, I can spin the shafts and see it in motion, to get a better idea of the inner workings.

JP, if you can scan that article for me you'll be my Favorite Person of the Week. There's no big rush on getting it to me, so take your time unpacking; it will be a few weeks before I have enough money allocated to even <span style="font-style: italic">start </span>pulling the engine.

 

[jvandyke]

I'd like that article too.
Here's a video of me checking out the one I swapped in. It has tired synchros I think. https://gallery.mac.com/jvandyke#100115