Installing pinion and ring gear

[RDKeysor]

My '60 BN7 is running an unidentified Toyota 5 speed, which is very nice indeed. However, the engine is turning about 3000 rpm at 60 mph. This suggests to me that my box came out of a pickup truck rather than the Toyota Supra (etc) often mentioned for use with the Smitty Toyota conversion. Lots of people have remedied the high rpm issue vs. speed issue with the 3.54 ring and pinion gears from Dan Lempert, and the cost I was quotes was just over $600 currently. A bit of inflation there. My question is what should one expect to pay to have the new components installed in a Healey? I watched as some of our AH club members pulled the axles from a car in preparation to remove the differential internals, which I understood were to be replaced with the Lempert bits by a professional because of the critical gear fitting required. I think getting the differential out and back in is less challenging than fitting the new components. Any experiences?

 

[Bob_Spidell]

I bought one of the 'original' Lempert gear sets ($200). At the time, they recommended a pro shop in FL, I think, who would fit them for $200 if you sent them the pumpkin (shipping would add quite a bit, methinks). My dad and I did it in a day (not counting R&R of the pumpkin). It whines a little, but I've heard from a couple people who had pros do it that theirs whine, too. I think maybe some gear sets/ratios may be inclined to whine--the 3.71 in my Mustang does. Dad was a factory rep for Ford and he said the first gen Mustangs did, too.

Note others have a 3.54 gear set, including Denis Welch.

 

[RDKeysor]

Dennis Welch is asking 500 lbs. for a reconditioned unit. Regards the Florida shop, I believe the local club member had his "pumpkin" redone in the Tampa area. I'll see him soon to pursue the matter. Thanks.

 

[vette]

Hi RD, I have a long story about changing over to 3:54 gears in my BJ7. I believe a search of this forum will give the story. But I do now happliy have a quiet set of 3:54 gears in my car. And they did come from Mike/Dan Lempert. My first set came from across the Pond. The rear end is built as any non-positraction rear end is built. Any "COMPETENT" installer can put them in. The problem with a possible noisy gear set has to do with the quality of the gear set which is a crap shoot no matter where you get them. Also the quality of the installer which is also somewhat of a crap shoot. With the 3:54:1 gears, 165/80-15 tires and OD, I'm running 2700 at 60 mph, and 3200 at 70 . Dave.

 

[HealeyRick]

Removing the pumpkin and taking it to a specialist is probably the easiest thing to do. If you don't find a Healey specialist nearby, I'd try a race shop. There's one in JAX that does differential set-up (I have no experience with them) : https://www.coastchassis.com/chassis-services.html

 

[Randy Forbes]

Dennis Welch is asking 500 lbs. for a reconditioned unit. Regards the Florida shop, I believe the local club member had his "pumpkin" redone in the Tampa area. I'll see him soon to pursue the matter. Thanks.

With a set of the 2nd batch Lempert gears, and living just 40 minutes south of Tampa, I too would be interested in the shop you're referring to.

Next Saturday, there's a nice All British car show in Safety Harbor, are you planning on going? I hope to be there...

 

[steveg]

My '60 BN7 is running an unidentified Toyota 5 speed, which is very nice indeed. However, the engine is turning about 3000 rpm at 60 mph. This suggests to me that my box came out of a pickup truck rather than the Toyota Supra (etc) often mentioned for use with the Smitty Toyota conversion. Lots of people have remedied the high rpm issue vs. speed issue with the 3.54 ring and pinion gears from Dan Lempert, and the cost I was quotes was just over $600 currently. A bit of inflation there. My question is what should one expect to pay to have the new components installed in a Healey? I watched as some of our AH club members pulled the axles from a car in preparation to remove the differential internals, which I understood were to be replaced with the Lempert bits by a professional because of the critical gear fitting required. I think getting the differential out and back in is less challenging than fitting the new components. Any experiences?

IMHO your tires are pretty small. Before I got my Supra tranny, was running one of the other ones with the 85% OD with my 3.54 original Lempert gearing. Was getting 70mph @ 3000 rpm with my then 185/70-15 tires. Now with Supra 78% OD and 180-15 Longstone Michelin tires, am getting 75+ @3000 rpm. Peter Roses gets closer to 80 with his 28% 100-6 OD and the same axle and tires.

I pulled the pumpkin and took it to a shop which does a lot of 4x4s, Monster Trucks, etc. The guy said it looked just like a Chevy "full-floating". They had no trouble setting it up and it has run completely quietly now for several years.

ADDENDUM: got the above percentages wrong - the Supra W58 5th is .783 to 1; 1 divided by .783 = 1.277 = 128% = 28% overdrive.
w55: .85 to 1; 1 divided by .85 = 1.176 = 18% overdrive.

PS there's a Wikipedia article: "Toyota W transmissions" listing the ratios for all of them.

 

[RDKeysor]

Sadly, the Brit car show in our area is held near St. Augustine on the same date as the Safety Harbor show. It seems members of the St. Johns Austin Healey Club, our local club, seems intent on going to that show, sponsored this year by our Triumph owners. So I'm scheduled to attend that one. As for Safety Harbor, three of us cruised down there last year, and we really enjoyed the show and the atmosphere in Safety Harbor. I've remarked to both show sponsors that it would benefit us all if they didn't hold their shows on competing dates. Interestingly, I have been to Pinellas County countless times over the past year, and both of my parents, Ohioans, died there. My brother, the first in our family to own a Healey, a 100-4 back in the mid-50s, lives at Indian Rocks Beach. Yet I had never been to Safety Harbor. Just a terrific show with a full range of Brit cars. If I get info on the Tampa differential builder when I see the guy who used him, I'll post it. However, as Jedi Knight posts below, setting up these differentials uses knowledge pretty well established in the trade. He will have to tell me what he means by 79% OD, as gear ratios, etc., are not in my knowledge base. I love rpm/speedo numbers, however.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Thanks, I appreciate it (to SteveG as well). I *just* missed the show in Safety Harbor last year, my overdrive imploding the day before, or I would've been there.

If you ever get to the Parrish area (Sarasota/Bradenton), I hope you'll look me up!

 

[RDKeysor]

Further to Jedi Knight's discussion of Toyota gear box ratios, etc. Upon purchase my car was missing the circular nylon(?) bushing on which the upper ball on the shift levers rotates. Finding gears was a challenge. So I joined the Toyota truck Web site, became somewhat conversant with the world of Toyota gear boxes and rock climbing vehicle lore. I finally figured out my problem, bought the bushing, installed it, and the car shifts perfectly. But I wanted to identify my gear box while I had it fully exposed. I did write down some numbers on the box that I can't now locate, but none prefixed with the important W number. With photos of my box in hand, I could not find a perfect match with any of the possibly 20 Toyota gear boxes illustrated at a rock climbing gear supplier's site. Half of those were easily eliminated because they were four-wheel drive versions. Most of the boxes look very similar, but different particularly with the positioning of the shift lever. I learned, possibly incorrectly, that the W numbers (Jedi notes his Supra is a W58) used to identify these boxes aren't actually marked on the housings, making identifying them difficult. I don't know if I could put my hands on a photo of my transmission. But simply put, I don't know what the gearing in my box is, only that my engine is turning more RPMs than desirable at highway speeds. I did speak to the person who had this car restored now possibly six years ago, hoping among other things to learn the condition of the original Healey gear box and overdrive that I obtained when I bought the car. This gentleman in North Carolina was obviously very knowledgeable, but he couldn't remember what the issues were with the original transmission, and likely likewise wouldn't remember the origin of the Toyota box he had installed in the car. Methinks it's a truck gear box.

 

[Money_Pit]

Just in the process of talking with a local transmission shop about doing the install of my Lempert gear set on my 62 BJ7 with Smitty Toyota transmission conversion so the timing of this post is perfect. I have purchased all the parts associated with the install with the exception of the shims. How easily are they accessible as I'm sure the transmission shop is not going to want my car sitting on the hoist for a week whilst waiting for parts. I've sourced some through Moss but lots of sizes out of stock. I realize that a measurement will be having to be made in order to get the right shim thickness if I cannot use the existing. That said would a machine shop be able to manufacturer the shim to save on ordering and shipping time? Appreciate your feedback.

 

[vette]

Money, I don't think the availability of shims is a big deal. In the past year I have changed my Ring & Pinion twice, because the first set whined too much for my blood. Even though I have great confidence in the original installer, I was at a loss about what was actually causing the whine so I changed the gears from another source and also the installer just to make sure I was starting from a clean slate. Anyway neither installer ever asked me to get shims. Evidentially they were confident they could get what they needed. By the way, my second set of gears (the quiet ones) came from Lempert. Dave.