Ignition light still on, help me please!!!!!!!

[TR4CB]

Had a problem with red ignition light staying on and battery not charging, so having no diagnostic skills, I replaced the generator and voltage regulator with new ones from Victoria British. Now the battery appears to be charging as the multi meter on the battery reads 13-14 volts but the darn ignition light still stays on. Can anyone help????? Thanks in advance. CB

 

[Gliderman8]

I don't know anything about your model, but is it possible there is a diode that is shorted somewhere in the wiring harness?

 

[TR3driver]

Almost has to be a wiring problem then. The 'ignition' light basically compares the output voltage of the generator (brown/yellow wire) to the ignition circuit (white wire). If the generator is charging the battery, they should both be at battery voltage.

 

[TR3driver]

First step might be to check the voltages on the regulator pins, with the engine running (and the light out). You should see battery voltage on terminal 'D' (which should be wired to one side of the dash warning light); and on terminal A1 (which should be wired to the other side of the light, through the ignition switch).

While you're there, see if you can find the second brown/yellow on terminal D. I'm not sure if it's a separate wire & connector on a TR4 or not, but if so, it might have gotten put back on the wrong terminal. Putting it on terminal 'E' would cause exactly your problem.

 

[martx-5]

Here's the stock scematics form Advance Auto Wire for the TR2-4A. They may help you to get the wiring right.

 

[angelfj1]

CB I was thinking of this driving home this evening. I just re-read your post and noticed that you mention replacing the generator. By any chance did your "flash" the generator field of the new gen? Not kidding. Generators need some residual magnetism to build up an adequate field. This is a bootstrapping effect. If your generator hasn't been flashed properly, it may not be able to produce a strong enough field and resultant voltage to overcome the existing battery voltage - the result is continual discharge of the battery. Here is a short description of field flashing. Your problem may be totally unrelated, but this is worth reading.

Lucas Generators (Dynamos)

 

[TR4CB]

Thanks guys, I believe I had the wiring connections on the regulator incorrect ie. A was on the lower spade below F instead of below A1. Ignition light has now gone out when engine is fired, not sure if this the correct connection scheme but with the number of spades to choose from its confusing. I wish there a picture to follow but thanks again for your responses.

 

[TR4CB]

Now I dont think I have this connect correctly at all

 

[TR3driver]

Dan's diagrams don't show the correct order of terminals on the regulator; you have to follow the letters instead.

With the terminals pointing towards you, and working from left to right, you should find:

A1 : Brown/blue wire (to ignition and lighting switches)
A : Brown/white wire (to ammeter)
F : Brown/green wire (to generator field)
D : (2) Brown/yellow wires (larger one to generator, smaller one to warning light)
E : Black wire (to nearby chassis ground)

This is an earlier version with screw terminals, but the later Lucar terminals should be in the same order.

 

[TR4CB]

why do the lucas spade type have large and small spades on A1, A and D? Is it correct that only D has two wired connections?

 

[TR3driver]

The regulator is a general-purpose product, not specific to Triumph. The extra terminals were in case some OEM wanted to connect a second wire at those points. But AFAIK Triumph only put a second wire on 'D', at least for the TR4 (and later TR3A/B).

Just checked a Herald 1200 diagram (which is the same control box) and it shows two wires on A and A1, as well as D. They basically got used as tie points to join the two wires together.

 

[TR4nut]

On my TR4, as well as in the factory manual I have, here is the hookup:

A1 Brown/blue (large spade)
A Brown/white (large spade)
F Brown/green (small spade)
D Brown/yellow (two of them large/small)
E Black (small spade, ground wire)

Pretty sure that is right.

Randy

 

[TR4CB]

alright, Ive got the regulator connected correctly and the ignition light still stays on. If I move the f field spade to the A spade it all works correctly what does that mean?

 

[TR3driver]

Well, the light may be behaving as you expect, but it definitely will not work correctly with the F wire on the A terminal. That would power the generator field all the time, which will drain the battery when the engine is not running, and overcharge when the engine is running. In addition, it risks burning out the generator, since it is not designed to be powered when not turning; or to run at full output.

My advice is to hook it back up the way it should be, and then start over with troubleshooting the problem. My guess is that now you will find that the light is actually indicating a problem, ie the generator is no longer working when connected properly. That could be a problem with either the generator or the control box.

If you want, PM me your email addy & I'll send you a scan of the Lucas Generator and Control Box tests booklet. There are several versions on the web, but mine is better

The steps are clear and easy to follow, but you will need a voltmeter (a cheap DMM from HF will do fine).

 

[TR4CB]

thank you for the suggestions. the generator and regulator are new, so I'm pretty sure I can rule them out as the issue. checked the continuity on D and F between the gen and regulator, not sure where else to look. this is driving me crazy

 

[TR3driver]

the generator and regulator are new,

No, they are not. You installed them incorrectly; connected the battery; started the engine. It only takes an instant for a solder joint to get hot and melt enough to make a poor connection. And there are lots of solder joints inside the control box & generator; the ones inside the generator are also under centrifugal force with the engine running. You don't have to "let the smoke out" for them to fail.

The generator and control box also have lots of windings that are separated only by a thin layer of enamel, which can overheat, crack and allow a short without any smoke.

And you've already mentioned trying a configuration that is guaranteed to overheat and damage the generator if it doesn't kill the battery first.

Plus of course even "new" parts sometimes don't work.

What you describe (light goes out with power applied directly to field) would not be unusual for a generator with thrown solder. All that means is that, with full power applied to the field, it will generate enough voltage to cause the cutout to close. But it will not work normally or keep the battery charged in that state; and it's condition will likely worsen quickly as the remaining windings try to work harder to make up for the ones that are no longer connected.

 

[CraigLandrum]

Using a Moss wiring harness, an old voltage regulator, and an original generator, I had the same problem (ignition light never went out). My problem was worn pickup brushes in the generator and incorrect connections to the voltage regulator. After I bought and installed new brushes and attached the harness to the regulator correctly, the generator finally was putting out enough power to charge the battery, which the regulator detected, turning out the ignition light. Everything was hooked up using the TR3A wiring harness - the Moss harness matches the original diagrams as far as wire color coding. Note that my generator (and I understand this is typical) didn't gen enough power to douse the light until RPM's went past 1,000. Ultimately, I also bought a new Moss voltage regulator as I didn't have any confidence in the old one switching on the correct voltages and I didn't trust myself to perform the regulator adjustments per the maintenance manual. The new Moss regulator works fine, my light goes out as soon as the car is started and my Ammeter shows positive Amps, indicating that the generator is charging the battery (I think). In any case, my light now goes out and my battery is being charged.

 

[DrEntropy]

It's th' brushes.


...'s all I gotta say...