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I know this is a strange question but......

terriphill

Darth Vader
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OK, motor's in and we start to crank it...battery's dead. So we charge it. It is a VERY small battery sold by local parts store (500 amps) After a charge it cranks the motor a few times and begins to die again. With the rebuild on the motor...we need more power but we can't find a battery to fit. I took a tape measure to the parts store and all the batteries with enough amps (750 or more...) are 6.5 in. the space in my midget is 6.25 in between the lip of the hood and the heater box. What am I missing? DO I need something special? where do you get them and am I gonna have to shell out another $200 to get it? or is 500amps all I'm gonna get?
 

jcatnite

Jedi Knight
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Mine is an Autocraft Silver. 51R-1 I think that jar size is about as big as we can put in our little cars. I only got 435 cca but that was enough to get mine started after the rebuild. Might need to give it a little better charge or take the battery to the parts store and let them test it for you. What you have should be enough to fire these engines even when they are tight.
JC
 

regularman

Yoda
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I would just hook up some jumper cables to a second battery until you get the motor started and run for a while. The motor is probably tight. I have had to use 3 batteries before to get a new rebuilt motor started. All connected in parellel of course. You cna use 24v but not for long, really hard on the starter.
 

regularman

Yoda
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Oh, and another thing you could do is unplug the heater hose that runs from the copper line to the heater from the heater end and remove the other hose from the heater control valve and hook the hose from the copper line straight to the valve and then unscrew and remove the heater and then you can put a big battery in there and use it for a while.
 
OP
T

terriphill

Darth Vader
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Thanks Kim,
I will probably try the jumper cable trick. THe biggest problem is I still am so bad at timing these cars. I set the timing and then have to fiddle, crank, fiiddle, crank, adjust, crank, and fiddle. By the time I get it to fire, I've juiced the battery. Then I have to wait a few hours with it on the charger and start over.
 

regularman

Yoda
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I know exactly what you mean. I myself will be going through the same thing shortly (I hope) when I attempt to fire mine up. I just left the heater out of mine to set a big battery in there at first. I dont know for sure how far I am off on my timing yet. Half the time with a new motor I have the timing 180 out and it backfires like crazy, hehe.
 
OP
T

terriphill

Darth Vader
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Dontcha just love those flames shooting out of the carb? Speaking of timing. Manual says 10 degrees BTDC. Mine really seems to be closer to TDC. Its not good but it gets better there. Still coughs, burps and backfires though.
 

neilh

Senior Member
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Group 51R battery is available at Costco - $39.99 - its the same as a 92 civic! I bought one a month or so ago and have use it every day while I am testing / rewiring my 79 - including multiple attempts to start it, and it is flawless.
 

Morris

Yoda
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Terri,

Could you have your dizzy in backwards? It will fit in the drive dog 180 out (guess how I know). That will make it cough spit and backfire like crazy.
 

jlaird

Great Pumpkin
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Yep yep, that's what it does. Easy fix. Turn the peice under the dizzy 180, the one with the gear or............

Put number one plug wire on number 4 etc. etc. Just hook em up backwards as a test.
 

jlaird

Great Pumpkin
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Yep that's the prob with a rebuild. Somehow now mater how careful I am I get the gear 180 out everytime. Now I put it in just right then turn it 180 and all is fine.
 

JerryB

Jedi Warrior
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""""""". What am I missing? DO I need something special""""

Yes....a fully charged battery and a decent starter.

400 cca should be fine on a stock replacement motor.

Assuming the above, then you might have internal clearances inside the motor problems.

Does the motor turn over by hand? Remove the plugs...about 25-30 ft /lbs at the crank pulley bolt.
 

JerryB

Jedi Warrior
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""""""" THe biggest problem is I still am so bad at timing these cars. I set the timing and then have to fiddle, crank, fiiddle, crank, adjust, crank, and fiddle. """"""

Assuming you have the dist in the motor somewhere close(the points just opening and the rotor approaching #1 in the cap and the mark on the front pulley/dampener at about 10* before tdc and the intake valve just closed).

You can use a test light across the points and just as the light goes OUT the dampener mark should be at about 5 to 10* before tdc.

And assuming you have preoiled the motor ??? a squirt of fuel in each carb and it should start immediately. Do NOT sit and crank and crank. If you are using a new cam and lifters you WILL wipe all the moly lube off the lobes with continual cranking and no high oil pressure.
 

jlaird

Great Pumpkin
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Engine should run right off, even with timeing off 10 degrees either way, just point the number one wire at the number one sparkplug, tighten the dizzy snug but not tight and hit it. Actually you can time preaty close by ear.
 

Morris

Yoda
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Hmmm, I got to rembember some of this. I thought you could not get the distributor 180 out because of the offset slot on the end of it, but ah, the gear could be off.[/QUOTE]

The dizzy can slide right in inspite of the slight offset. Or at least that is the case with mine.
 

jlaird

Great Pumpkin
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Then you got a bad shaft or something, it was designed to that could not be done.
 

regularman

Yoda
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Well, hopefully tomorrow I will find out how far off my timing is. Car is still bare metal with everything off of it but I want to see if anything is wrong with all the stuff I have done with the 5 speed conversion.
 

racingenglishcars

Darth Vader
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General rule of thumb for rough timing. To make sure you are not 90 out or 180 out or anything else.

After turning the engine, it never rests at TDC or BDC. It always rests sort of half way in between.
Therefore pull the valve cover and distributor cap and;

When valves 2 & 4 are open, the rotor should point between cyliders 3 & 4
When valves 3 & 8 are open, the rotor should point between cyliders 4 & 2
When valves 5 & 7 are open. the rotor should point between cyliders 2 & 1
When valves 6 & 1 are open, the rotor should point between cyliders 1 & 3
 
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