I hate German cars.

[Scott_Hower]

Took my wife's X5 in for the annual PA state safety inspection. Car has 60k miles on it, bought it new, it's the kid hauler.

Dealer just called and said it needs:

RH control arm bushings (not sold seperately, must replace the entire control arm ... nice)
RH sway bar end links
RH ball joint
RH CV boot is ripped open and spewing grease.
(that explains the mess inside the summer wheels).

Oh, and front pads and rotors, which have less than 15k miles on them. Est is ~$1500. Gulp; I can buy a bunch of MGB/Spitfire parts for that amount. Dealer suspects a large pothole (or maybe something got run over) as probable cause. Naturally SWMBO has no idea how this happened.

I don't have an impact socket big enough to get the axle nut off, so they'll get the CV boot job, the rest I'll handle myself.

I'm going back to Hondas when this one wears out.

 

[DrEntropy]

Good plan!

Replace the sedan with an S2000, the hauler with whatever Honda offers as a good surrogate. <devil>

 

[Scott_Hower]

Good plan!

Replace the sedan with an S2000, the hauler with whatever Honda offers as a good surrogate. <devil>

Will probably be an Accord and a Pilot. Wife and I have owned three Accords in the last 10 years and they are just bulletproof. Boring, but bulletproof

$510 to replace a $20 rubber bellows. Can I get some extra lube with that please /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif ?

 

[DrEntropy]

I may have an old tube of CV joint grease left over from my Porsche days here... you can have it fer shipping. Go prepared. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

 

[tony barnhill]

That's why I now do everything on my 380SL & have started taking Jerri's C280 to an independent repair shop: dealer prices plus they charge extra for the lubricant before they put it to you (& never give you a kiss!!)

 

[Bret]

So do you think the Hondas would hold-up better than the BMWs or are you saying that they cheaper & easier to repair?

I guess all I'm saying that if your rough on vehicles you're still going to eventually have to fix things.

Good luck,
Bret

 

[lawguy]

Heck, I put 188,000 rough...rough...rough miles on my old S-15 Jimmy and the suspensions, transmission and engine never gave me any significant trouble...a few repairs over time, to be sure, but then only after 120,000 miles (except for an alternator).

Now, granted, an X5 is much nicer to drive, looks better and is goes like stink....but if my Jimmy had shown the wear your X5 did at 60,000 miles, I'd be upset....at less than 1/3 the cost new.

 

[Scott_Hower]

Now, granted, an X5 is much nicer to drive, looks better and is goes like stink....but if my Jimmy had shown the wear your X5 did at 60,000 miles, I'd be upset....at less than 1/3 the cost new.

This is the second set of control arms/ball joints in 3 years. No excuse for that. Perhaps the 235/40/19 tires are the culprit?

 

[DrEntropy]

GVW and "planned obsolesence" would be my opinion as to cause.

The Honda's are less likely to break as frequently, parts DO cost less (comparatively) and they're easier to work on (IMO). BMW has really shot themselves in the foot, AFAIC, with the way they've ~assumed~ people will just accept the expense of ownership as the price for driving Blau mit Weiss nosebadged cars. BAH! They ain't THAT great. 'specially as grocery-getters. Likely the Hondriod Pilot would outlast the Bimmer 4-to-1 on any part/piece you can name. Unless your wife has a penchant for four-wheel drifting. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[Scott_Hower]

So do you think the Hondas would hold-up better than the BMWs or are you saying that they cheaper & easier to repair?

I'm saying both. I have a stack of reciepts an inch thick of stupid stuff that needed to be fixed (most of it under warranty, thankfully).

Examples:

Window regulators. Common failure point an ANY newer BMW. A fifty cent plastic clip explodes inside the door regulator assy and the window falls into the door. You need to replace the whole thing; they dont sell the clip. ~$300 at the dealer. Has happened twice; I don't let the kids use the windows any more.

The hatch lights. They pop out when closing the hatch and shatter. How hard is it to engineer a light housing that stays in the tailgate? I finally glued them in with silicone caulk.

The taillight clusters. The brake/parking lamps started acting weird at about 2years old, throwing errors on the cluster (light out). Dealer told me they are prone to corrosion and replaced the light housings under warranty - the while thing. Now I need to remove them and clean the corrosion once a year. Unreal.

Dont get me wrong, it's a fun vehicle to drive, it is just frustrating to deal with nonsense things that ought to be better engineered. Then again, it is revenue generation for the service dept, maybe they want it that way...

 

[DrEntropy]

My point. Grounds on the taillamp assemblys is NOT a new BMW issue. It was so from the early '80's. Same with window regulators/rig... ask jlaird. Not uncommon. The build quality (MY opinion, mind you) is just not in line with the expense of buying/maintaining them.

 

[Scott_Hower]

My point. Grounds on the taillamp assemblys is NOT a new BMW issue. It was so from the early '80's. Same with window regulators/rig... ask jlaird. Not uncommon. The build quality (MY opinion, mind you) is just not in line with the expense of buying/maintaining them.

I forgot all about the auxilliary fan(s) issue. Apparently BMW got a bad batch of A/C helper fans from the OEM and they were prone to short out. Not once, not twice, THREE times the car was recalled to replace the auxilliary cooling fan. They even filled the car with gas and offered to pick it up on a rollback. There were several documented cases of the fans burning the vehicle and the homes/garages to a crisp.

The side mirrors have a mind of their own; the passenger mirror is supposed to tilt down when in reverse to aid in seeing the curb, then return when in D/P. They are just possessed; sometimes they tilt, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the wrong mirror tilts. BMW swears they are working fine and it is a customer anomaly.

I could go on... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

 

[Bret]

This must be a relatively new phenomenon with BMWs as you’ve pointed out. While they’ve always been expensive, I’ve known several folks who’ve always tried to talk me into buying into the Bavarian Motor Works – touting the marquee as the best. But those have all been older cars (10+ years) and have been relatively trouble free.

But I would agree that two control arms ball/joints in three years with less than 60K on the clock would have me fuming too. But if it’s not a well documented common problem with all BMW X5s - it’d make me question whether or not the problem was ever diagnosed and/or repaired properly the first time.

 

[healeyneil]

I reckon Honda prices are just as bad as BMW (certainly here in UK ) If you look at S2000 forums they have big grumbles about suspension arm costs. My wife will change hers sooner rather than later for that reason.

 

[tony barnhill]

I've owned a 2002, 320is, 323i (the Euro model) & a 524td - I'll not own another!

 

[Scott_Hower]

But if it’s not a well documented common problem with all BMW X5s - it’d make me question whether or not the problem was ever diagnosed and/or repaired properly the first time.

Thats the problem. It *is* a well documented problem, (as is the window regulator) on the E53/X5, the E46(3 series) and the E39(5 series). There is absolutely no reason for control arm bushings to go bad so often. Either use better materials, or make them servicable. Same with the windows - make the regulator clips from METAL, or redesign it.

I swear BMW refuses to address this stuff because it forms the bread and butter of their service business. In most cases, people just pay it. I refuse to do that unless I absoluely have to (special tools, etc).

 

[Steve]

I have a BMW as my daily driver. It is a 1992 525iT (the wagon, first year they ever brought it over here) and it has been as reliable as you could ever wish. I bought it from my father two years ago, it was always dealer-serviced so I knew the history of it, but I would suggest that it illustrates the fact that they don't build 'em like they used to. Everything about that car is over-engineered.

Tony has said that Mercedes are the same, in that their modern products do not match the older models in terms of reliability and longevity. I would bet that he would describe his SL as being over-engineered, too!

Case in point, the bodyshell on certain late-model 5-series Bimmers where the rear suspension mounts is weak, and starts to fail (!). BMW's stock answer is that it is due to abuse or even the car being raced, but this is happening on the family grocery-getters. Mechanical niggles seem to be increasingly more commonplace, too.

 

[swift6]

Case in point, the bodyshell on certain late-model 5-series Bimmers where the rear suspension mounts is weak, and starts to fail (!). BMW's stock answer is that it is due to abuse or even the car being raced, but this is happening on the family grocery-getters. Mechanical niggles seem to be increasingly more commonplace, too.

Which is a really weak excuse for a company that promotes itself as the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and flaunts the high performance aspects of its vehicles. Heaven forbid owners actually try to drive up to the potential that is alluded too only to have the vehicle fail from an inherent weakness. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[Steve]

I was thinking along those lines myself.......

 

[PC]

... BMW swears they are working fine and it is a customer anomaly....

That's the first lesson in BMW's service technician training. Actually, I think it's the first, last and every third lesson in between. The first lesson in the "service advisor" training is that you have to be well dressed and pretty but not know anything about how cars work.

The only thing we hate about our MINI is having to deal with the BMW dealer's service department.


PC.