how much gas for winter storage

[johnrip]

it is almost time for winter storage in western new york. i will store my tr7 indoors, in unheated garage. i have heard that the best idea is to store will full tank of gas with staybil. i have also heard 1/4 tank, and then fill up in spring. any ideas?

 

[pdplot]

Fill the tank. You don't want condensation. The gas will still be good in the spring. I've been doing that for 17 years. I also throw in a can of Drygas "just in case".

PD

 

[ObiRichKanobi]

Agreed. Full tank and add Stabil. If you leave "headroom" in the tank and water condenses, it will settle to the bottom of the tank. Not only can it rust the tank from the inside out, but the fuel pickup can grab it in the spring.

 

[CJD]

I no longer think condensation is the worry. I think our corn alcohol in modern gas is the first thing to break down and leave water in the tank. I used to fill when gas was, well, gas. I now store with the absolute minimum of fuel and top it up as soon as I bring it out of storage, to dilute what little is in the tank. You can still use the stabilizer in the min tank load if it will be stored more than a couple months.

John

 

[PAUL161]

I fill my tanks to prevent condensation, plus, I add the proper proportion of Marine Sta-Bil. If there's a chance of ethanol in there, use the marine version, it was designed to reduce the effects of corn gas on fiberglass marine tanks and old rubber. Ethanol will eventually weaken fiberglass tanks. Not good in a boat! PJ

 

[hilsideser]

Wow! Didn't know there was a Marine formulation of Sta-bil. I will definately look for it.

 

[poolboy]

If you have the ZS carbs, I'd recommend removing the fuel inlet line to the carbs and occassionally shoot the float chamber needle valves with WD-40 or better PB Blaster, then again when coming out of hibernation.
The residue from evaporated gas in the needle valves can sometimes cause problems such as flooding or starvation; the longer the hibernation, the more likely.

 

[glemon]

I live in the midwest, I have stored many cars (and lawnmowers) for 4 months of winter and never had any problems with gasoline degrading or gumming up carbs or anything.

 

[Don Elliott]

I only drive my 1958 TR3A from April to the end of October. It spends the winter in my dry, heated (55 deg. F) garage. I end the summer of driving so I have very little gas left in the tank. Being dry and inside, I have never had condensation problems. But I had the tank "slushed" 21 years ago with an epoxy type coating inside, so it is well protected inside. Some of these more recent coatings are being attacked by ethanol - or so I've heard - but my internal coating has resisted the ethanol for more than 5 years.

In the spring, I fill a 2 gallon jerry can with fresh gas at the gas station and add it to the TR. This dilutes the small amount of old (bad) gas, then I get it running and drive to a gas station and fill up the tank with more fresh gas.

 

[TR3driver]

Don, didn't you also tell us that you only bought E10 once and "never again" ?

 

[Don Elliott]

Randall - You are right. I said that, but now I can't tell if the gas here in Canada has the 10% ethanol added. They all say it has it in the gas. I have found that I don't have any more problems if I use ESSO (EXXON to you) or Shell. For the past 3000 miles or so, I have used 87 octane and had no issues. I must also add that you suggested that I change the 50-year old rubber feeding the fuel to the banjo fittings at the float bowls on my 1958 TR3A.

I changed that rubber + stainless sheath hose in 2008 for a new one made of modern rubber and have had no issues till about a month ago when I filled up with 94 octane from Petro Canada as it was on the right side of the road and I needed some fuel. But since I had heard that the higher octane gas in Canada has no ethanol in it, I didn't add any Marvel Mystery Oil - like I have done every tankful since 2008. I add 4 ounces of it each time I fill the tank.

Well, to cut a long story short, this 94 Petro Canada gas caused me to splutter just as it had done so in 2007 whenever I used Perto Canada or Sunoco 94.

I drove 180 miles on 3/4 of this tankful of 94 Petro Canada gas and couldn't get more than 5 miles befor it would start to sputter. Like Frank Angelini reported, I would wait at idle for a few minutes along the side of the road and then I had full power again - for about 5 minutes till it would start to splutter again.

In the next village, I filled up with 87 ESSO regular and added the 4 oz. of Marvel Mystery oil. About 3 miles (and 3 more sputtering events) it suddenly cleared up and I continued on my trip to my brother's place north of Toronto. It never sputtered for the rest of that trip - by that I mean the next 700 miles where I filled up several more times with Shell 87 and ESSO 87 plus the 4 oz.of MMO. At one time on the QEW highway, I was up to 85 MPH. I concluded that the problem was a bad batch of Petro Canada 94 gas

I'll keep away from Petro Canada and from Sunoco from now on.

 

[BillyB62]

Don,

I've been troubleshooting a backfiring issue for the last two tankfuls of gas and been pulling what little hair I have out. I've only used Sunoco 94 since registering the car in July and I've been about 2000 miles. I faithfully use Lucas Fuel Stabilizer every tank of gas. This weekend I noticed running the car without air filters made the car run much better, but I still had a little repeating under heavy load when climbing the hill to my home (I live atop a fairly high hill). I'm thinking of trying a different brand on my next tankful to see if my problems go away.

Why do you feel using the higher octane would cause poorer performance?

Also, what is the purpose of using MMO each tankful? I use it in my dashpot, but I'm not sure I've heard of anyone using it in their tank.

 

[angelfj1]

Don: When you last rebuilt TRusty's engine, did you maintain the original specification compression ratio? The reason I ask is that you report you are using 87 octane fuel. Neither of my TR's are happy with anything but 93 octane or higher. If I use anything lower I get pinking. So, how is it that you can use "regular", 87 octane fuel?

Thanks, Frank

 

[angelfj1]

Like Frank Angelini reported, I would wait at idle for a few minutes along the side of the road and then I had full power again - for about 5 minutes till it would start to splutter again.

We eventually determined that the cause was not fuel related but actually a bad ignition coil. This was only determined by a process of elimination. When the coil was replaced all symptoms disappeared and have not returned.

 

[TR3driver]

Also, what is the purpose of using MMO each tankful? I use it in my dashpot, but I'm not sure I've heard of anyone using it in their tank.

Check your owner's manual, it is suggested in there.

I am also running an upper cylinder lubricant, but instead of MMO, I use synthetic 2-cycle oil (rated TC-W3). In theory, it will extend the life of the piston rings and cylinder walls. I don't know if that is true or not, but the theory is that E10 (which is all you can buy here) has more of a tendency to wash away the oil film on cold starts and potentially lead to rapid ring wear. One of our local club members had his TR4 engine "wear out" (huge ring gaps) in something like 10,000 miles after being rebuilt; and I've heard of the same thing happening to other old engines.

Maybe it's all "snake oil" and paranoia, but it seemed to me that the blowby on my 56 TR3 was getting worse over time before I started adding the oil; and now it seems to be very slowly improving just a bit. Oil consumption is also down somewhat. I can't prove it is due to the oil in the fuel, but the idle rpm also crept up and had to be turned back down. At any rate, I intend to continue the experiment until I'm ready to rebuild the engine.

 

[BillyB62]

Once again, thanks to all that responded. I did read that but for some reason took it as just during the break in period of the engine, something that has long since been done. Thanks to my trusted BCF adviser's, I'll be adding MMO to my tank fulls from now on.

 

[Don Elliott]

I cannot say why the higher octane gave me problems. I'll stick to the solution I found - namely to only fill up with ESSO or Shell.

I have used 87 octane since last summer after coming back from England where the TR Register loaned me their "company car" as I call TS2, the 2nd TR2 ever built. I drove that historic TR2 a total of 2088 miles all through England and Wales. They loaned it to me for 23 days, the last 17 days with the top and sidecurtains stowed on the "boot". They told me to use 87 regular and it ran exquisitely the whole time. It has the original specs but a mildly improved cam and it ran fine.

I decided in 2007 while at VTR in Valley Forge PA to start using 4 oz. of MMO per tankful on the advice of Charles Runyon of Roadster Factory. MMO is not available in Canada so I bought a supply of MMO in the US but this supply has just run out. So I have started to use Lucas "Upper Cylinder Lubricant for bad gas" and after 3 tankfuls, it runs as fine as with the MMO.

Frank - My engine is as per the original spec. New pistons and liners (1991cc) in 1990 and new rings in 2007 just before all my sputtering problems with the ethanol in USA. The head has been skimmed twice in 189,000 from new, therefore I think the compression is as per the original spec.

And Petro Canada 94 costs 1.57 per liter (almost $6.00 per US gallon) here in Canada so I save money using 87 octane at $1.35 per liter or $5.15 per US gallon.

 

[BillyB62]

I realized I commented I was using Sunoco 94, its actually 93 octane... I'm not sure I can find 94 octane in Connecticut. I'm close to shutting my car down for the winter but might do another tankful or two. I'll see if the MMO makes a difference.

Thanks to all again,