How do I convince steering arm to come off idler?

[Andrew1]

Super warm weather here in Ontario gave me a break to do some lingering work on the steering of a BJ8.

I have removed the passenger side steering idler from the car together with the steering arm attached to the idler's spindle.

I am having difficulty removing the steering arm from the spindle and its splines. I have have used a moderate 10inch tie-rod/gear puller on the spindle's tabs with considerable torque. Add a few big wacks with a 2 lb mallet....no luck.

I am affraid of causing damage to the unit, so I need a bit of advice from the pro's. Should I apply penerating oil over a period of days and crank up the torque on the gear puller?

Should I apply heat... and how much can the arm take? What type of machine/automotive shop would have a bigger press/puller to do the trick?

Appreciate hearing your experiences.

-Andrew-

 

[Keoke]

I would try the penetrating oil method first Andrew.---Fwiw---Keoke

 

[Randy Forbes]

Purpose-built penetrating oil (not WD-40) over a period of several days AND leave the puller attached. Kroil is the best, and probably the most expensive penetrant (we use it exclusively in the refinery). Using two (2) hammers simultaneously and opposite each other, an occasional smack will help to dislodge the splines. And continue to add a little more tension on the puller a bit at a time.

 

[Andrew1]

Re: The idler arm came off ! Which way goes seal?

Thank you Randy and Keoke!

The two hammer (in opposite directions) trick was the ticket. It was also quite a show too.

I guess the spindle and puller were under so much pressure, that when the tap convinced the two parts to come apart, it sent the idler assembly about four feet into a wall. Left a nice 1/2 inch hole in the drywall. For those kids at home, use safety glasses and heavy gloves!

Gentlemen, the idler oil seal is very-very stiff and I have to get it under the idler lip and seated into the grove. It's tight and I don't know how much stress the oil seal will take (is it rubber or hard plastic?).

Should I go ahead and distort the oil seal to get it into the slot? Which side of the oil seal faces into the idler body? I figure the groved side of the seal (where you can see the spring) goes in first?

Thanks again,

- Andrew - /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[Randy Forbes]

Re: The idler arm came off ! Which way goes seal?

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Randy and Keoke!

The two hammer (in opposite directions) trick was the ticket. It was also quite a show too.

I guess the spindle and puller were under so much pressure, that when the tap convinced the two parts to come apart, it sent the idler assembly about four feet into a wall. Left a nice 1/2 inch hole in the drywall. For those kids at home, use safety glasses and heavy gloves!

Gentlemen, the idler oil seal is very-very stiff and I have to get it under the idler lip and seated into the grove. It's tight and I don't know how much stress the oil seal will take (is it rubber or hard plastic?).

Should I go ahead and distort the oil seal to get it into the slot? Which side of the oil seal faces into the idler body? I figure the groved side of the seal (where you can see the spring) goes in first?

Thanks again,

- Andrew - /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Well, I'm glad you got it apart (and survived to tell about it).

Yes, the side with the spring exposed is in contact with the fluid you're trying to contain. Put a little grease (or heavy oil) on the rubber lip before fitting. Always lube a rubber seal before use/installation. The seal body can take a little distortion during assembly, but should sit as even as possible once fully fitted.

Good luck, though it sounds like you've got licked now!

 

[John Loftus]

Re: The idler arm came off ! Which way goes seal?

Andrew,

You could have kept the castellated nut on loosely so the steering lever could not damage someone/something (next time!)

Are pulling the Idler shaft and replacing the bushings? I honed the bushings to size since I didn't have a reamer and it came out great. I don't remember the seal being very hard to replace so make sure the recess is cleaned out well. I used an appropriately sized socket to set the seal in place and then replaced the idler shaft. Check the splines carefully since any burrs or sharpness could damage the new seal and grease the splines to help get them past the seal. On mine, it took two gaskets on the top plate to get the end-float set up correctly. Make sure you get it set correctly for zero end float and still turns freely.

Cheers,
John

 

[Andrew1]

Inserting Bushings Reaming

Thanks John and Randy.... I never thought of the Safety solution of reattaching the Nut!

What is the best method of initially installing the replacement bushings, I rebuilt Kingpins once and used a wood block and hammer to insert the bushings then. I got the impression that one wrong hit and I would distort and ruin the bushing. Is there a better menthod?

I plan to use a small drill mounted brake cylinder hone to ream the bushing to fit the existing pin. Does that seem good?

- Andrew -

 

[Randy Forbes]

Re: Inserting Bushings Reaming

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks John and Randy.... I never thought of the Safety solution of reattaching the Nut!

What is the best method of initially installing the replacement bushings, I rebuilt Kingpins once and used a wood block and hammer to insert the bushings then. I got the impression that one wrong hit and I would distort and ruin the bushing. Is there a better menthod?

I plan to use a small drill mounted brake cylinder hone to ream the bushing to fit the existing pin. Does that seem good?

- Andrew -

[/ QUOTE ]
Ideally, you would use a "pilot" to drive in the bushes; it's a drift that is turned down to fit closely inside the bush and has a square shoulder to impart the force of your BFH to drive the bush in without distorting it. the outer diameter would be just under the o.d. of the bush.

Then, you would use the approriate size reamer to cut and align the bushes to suit the shaft. I really don't think you'll like the results of using a cylinder hone; no way to keep the load-bearing edges parallel with each other.

At least for the idler and steering box you only need one (1) size pilot and reamer, I had to make a handful of tools to rebuild my king-pins /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[John Loftus]

Re: Inserting Bushings Reaming

Hi Andrew,

The bushings should not take a lot of force to install. Use some oil or assembly lube and try getting it started by hand and gently tapping with a rawhide, rubber or plastic faced hammer. Once started you can use the wood block/hammer to set it completely in place. I used a brake hone on a drill press with the idler body held in a padded vise. It can be done with a hand drill but it took about 10 minutes of honing (for each bushing) to creep up on the right size and it was easier to use the drill press. You just want to keep the hone moving, well oiled and occasionally check the fit with the idler shaft. When you are done honing, triple wash the idler shaft and bushings with parts cleaner or thinner. You want to get rid of any grit/small metal particles from the honing process. Order several top cap gaskets or you can cut your own in order to get the correct thickness to set the end float properly. Then use some Hylomar on the gasket surfaces to seal things, fill to the top with some thick oil and the idler should be good for another 45 years.

Cheers,
John

 

[John Loftus]

Re: Inserting Bushings Reaming

Randy,

I just saw your reply and was curious about your reamer set-up. Do you use or recommend an adjustable reamer? I've been thinking of purchasing one of these and thought it would allow one to adjust the exact size of the bore to the shaft which may have some wear. Thoughts?

Cheers,
John

 

[Randy Forbes]

Re: Inserting Bushings Reaming

[ QUOTE ]
Randy,

I just saw your reply and was curious about your reamer set-up. Do you use or recommend an adjustable reamer? I've been thinking of purchasing one of these and thought it would allow one to adjust the exact size of the bore to the shaft which may have some wear. Thoughts?

Cheers,
John

[/ QUOTE ]
As yet, I don't have any adjustable reamers, but I wouldn't rule out owning a set in the future. For the present, I just purchase a reamer in the size I need, beit fractional or Metric sizes. I even have a specially made reamer that matches the taper of the tie-rod ends /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif