TR2/3/3A Hand starting

[TomMull]

Had a recent discussion about starting a Marine diesel (Volvo Penta MD2) with it's hand crank (which I once found relatively easy to do), led me to consider the hand crank on my TR3, with which I was never successful in getting a start. At last one person on another forum said he started it by hand all one winter in the UK. Did I miss a trick?
Tom

 

[NutmegCT]

Tom - more experienced folks than me will share their tips, but ... does your engine start smoothly with the starter? does the crank turn smoothly (when the ignition is off)?

(And hopefully you know to "cup" the handle with all five fingers - don't put your thumb opposite the fingers.)

 

[Andrew Mace]

No special trick other than the "cup the handle" part. But how well it starts on the crank depends on how well it starts otherwise. Does it catch pretty much instantly with the starter? If so, crank starting should be pretty easy. If not, then....

 

[Geo Hahn]

I used to crank start mine quite often -- one week (on the road) due to starter failure and then also at shows for the amusement of my peers and to the amazement of anyone under 50.

It helped that my engine was a bit tired -- I have recently done new pistons & liners so the crank start is more work.

It does help if the starter dog is in the ideal position (described in the manual). Oddly, it seemed to start more readily when stone cold.

I always wear gloves for this (roping gloves from HF work well for me). Even thought about sewing the thumb to the forefinger to reinforce the correct digital position.

Be careful.

 

[martx-5]

When I had a TR4 in the 60's, I used to crank start it. Like others have said, it must start easy on the electric starter to start easy on the crank. The procedure I used was to first prime the carb float bowls using the hand pump on the fuel pump. You'll know when they are full when while pumping the resistance goes down. Pull the choke out unless it's really warm (hot) out. At this point, you may or may not give it a crank with the ignition off to suck a little fuel into the intake. If it was pretty cold out, I would give it an initial crank. Then turn on the ignition (contact) and have a go at it.

 

[NutmegCT]

Tom - could you give us more detail on what happens when you try to start? It doesn't fire at all? The crank is really hard to turn? It fires once then quits?

Sorry to be overly basic, but you do have the ignition turned on, and the gearbox in neutral, right?

What happens when you can't start it with the crank, and you immediately use the starter button? Does it start then?

Thanks.
Tom

 

[Brinkerhoff]

You have to be careful yes. Like others have said, " cup the handle" . You want to start at 8 o clock and pull up quickly to 12 o clock . That way if the engine backfires or kicks back it will just pull the handle out of your hand . Do not push down on the handle to start, if the engine kicks back it will transfer the force up through your arm. You'll need compression and a good condenser. My TR3 always fires quickly w the button. I used to start my MGA all the time with the crank. Its been below zero here so the TR3 is hard enough to roll over with the starter !

 

[Brinkerhoff]

You have to make sure your choking drops the jets fully when the engine is cold.

 

[CJD]

Hand cranking.

That reminds me of the old Stearman biplane my father was a part owner in. Five ex-military pilots that flew the Stearman in primary flight school went in together on a newly restored plane. I remember it was beautiful. They don't have it any more, though...because of hand cranking.

When the Stearman was cold it started in 2 flips. One to prime and one to fire. It would just pop along so slow you could count the rotations. That was cold. When it was hot, it was a whole different beast. You would have to crack the throttle open and flip and pray. To keep the plane from running away once it did start with the throttle open, it had to be tied down by the tail wheel. Often this was easier said than done, as some areas of airports are pretty free of places to tie to.

The plane was only a two seater (kinda like the TR's), but these old guys usually flew alone. All was good, and all 5 owners knew the quirks of the plane. This was until one owner sold his share to a young, brash pilot. One day the new guy was trying to start the old bird hot...and neglected to tie it down. You know what's coming!

Uncharacteristically, the big radial popped to life on the first flip. The pilot dove for his life to avoid the prop and wing. He managed to grab a truss wire on the tail...and enjoyed the rest of the ride being drug on his belly over the Tarmac. The Stearman chewed through 3 Cessnas and a Chevy before the prop finally splintered enough to quit pulling...oversped the engine and broke the con rod. Everything but the Chevy was a total write off.

That was 25 years ago. I think it took a decade for them to sort through the legal issues.

Hand cranking. I'm content to watch somebody else try it...from a distance.

 

[PAUL161]

My old Stearman in nostalgic B&L photos. Yes when cold you could hand prop it, when hot you had to crank the inertia starter. PJ

 

[TomMull]

Tom - more experienced folks than me will share their tips, but ... does your engine start smoothly with the starter? does the crank turn smoothly (when the ignition is off)?

(And hopefully you know to "cup" the handle with all five fingers - don't put your thumb opposite the fingers.)

Haven't actually tried lately but will again this spring. As I recall, it turned a few revs typically and then started smoothly on the starter motor. With the handle,, as I recall, I was not able to pull it smoothly nor quickly through the compression stroke. I do admit that I can't verify that the timing was spot on.
Tom

 

[TomMull]

Tom - more experienced folks than me will share their tips, but ... does your engine start smoothly with the starter? does the crank turn smoothly (when the ignition is off)?

(And hopefully you know to "cup" the handle with all five fingers - don't put your thumb opposite the fingers.)

Haven't actually tried lately but will again this spring. As I recall, it turned a few revs typically and then started smoothly on the starter motor. With the handle,, as I recall, I was not able to pull it smoothly nor quickly through the compression stroke. I do admit that I can't verify that the timing was spot on.
I am aware of the cupped hand rule (on the diesel one spun with both hands then switched to one cupped hand while the compression release was reversed with the other.)
Tom

 

[Geo Hahn]

Okay -- this thread inspired me to go out to the garage and give it a go.

I misspoke re the crank position -- it reaches the start of compression at a little past 3:00 and again a bit before 9:00. Cold engine, some choke, one rotation with the ignition off and then a quick pull from the 8:30 position. Started on the first yank.

We've got a car show in 2 weeks that always has lots of kids and twentysomethings (military families) so I want to be in good form cranking-wise.