Got me thinking...........

[Steve]

I was at my friendly neighbourhood MG specialist the other day, and happened to remark upon a TR6 that was at his shop..........normally he doesn't touch Triumphs.........it belonged to a friend of his, hence its presence there. But I digress. His remarks about the car will not be repeated here (in case anyone decides to throw their toys out of the pram) but he mentioned that an MGB with the Moss supercharger installed would perform as well, which set me to thinking. My car only has 26K miles, so it would accept such a conversion well, and I was considering a Weber or SU conversion and de-smogging the thing anyway. Maybe I should save my pennies for a little longer and just go the whole hog /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Any opinions?

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Hey Steve -

See what you get for thinking?

Just so happens that I was looking at the new Moss catalog last night, and on the back cover is a picture of the supercharger. Mighty tempting, as I'm in the final stages of building a new engine now for the '73 I'm restoring. Trouble is, we've already gone "bust" on the cost, and I don't know how many more lunches I can skip to continue paying for this thing!

But, all things considered, it looks pretty good.....

Mickey

 

[screenprinter]

Steve, Have you looked over the instructions for the installation of that kit? Looks mighty complicated to me, But if you're going to farm it out to a pro who could probably do it in his sleep I say Go For It - More of anything ( Particularly horsepower) is generally better! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
What are the emission laws like in GB? Are they sensitive to removing emmission equipment like they are over here in the colonies?

Anyway, I hope you do it up and let us know how great a difference it makes! I know it sure looks like a bada** with that blower and all that fancy plumbing nestled under the bonnet!

 

[Mark Beiser]

I would think that a MGB with the Moss supercharger would outperform a stock TR6 in a straight line.

I have been more than a little curious what you could get out of a race ballanced MGB engine with low compression pistons, the improved alloy cylinder head with roller rockers, and a cam profiled for a supercharged engine. Using the Moss supercharger at higher boost levels, but deleting the carburetor and using throttle body fuel injection and distributorless ignition with an engine management system.

Maybe if I ever have an extra $10,000 laying around with absolutely no other use for it, I'll find out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

 

[screenprinter]

Man Mark, I'm glad somebody knows what they're doing - I'm trying to keep the Sprite alive just because I can work on the engine - All that stuff you mentioned scares the crap outta me - When I look at the motor in my wife's minivan all I can think of is that the darn thing looks like an alien organism that grew there from seeds or something -

And I'm with you - If I had 10 large kicking around I'd have something a whole lot cleaner than my little rat racer and a GT6+ in a basket!!

 

[aeronca65t]

If it makes you happy, then do it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'd want to try one of these or at least see the setup "in the flesh" first.
Your car is a 5-main engine and has fairly low compression so it would work well with this setup. I think this would be not so good on the older 3-main engine.
From the Moss info, the system looks pretty simple (but you'd have to take that intake manifold back off!).
As far as I can tell, they developed it due to the popularity of the Miata supercharger kit that Moss also sells. I drove an older supercharged M1 Miata with this kit and it was not what you'd call an amazing improvement....not really any faster than my newer Miata in terms of "seat of the pants". Part of the limited improvement was the designed-in, modest level of boost (to prevent the engine from grenading prematurely). I believe the MGB kit also uses a very modest level of boost to keep the engine together.
This is not anything like the old Judson superchargers that were available for MGs in the 60s. Those could crank out 10-15 psi of manifold boost (but were also deadly for engine-life).
What I'm saying is, don't expect anything amazing unless you start playing around with pully diameters and other stuff.

If it were me, I'd buy a set of extra wheels, some nice performance tires and a roll-bar.....and go autocrossing.

Actually, you might be able to buy a decent Spridget for the cost of that kit (but I better not "go there", right?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

 

[Mark Beiser]

[ QUOTE ]
Man Mark, I'm glad somebody knows what they're doing

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really, I just read a lot and have an active imagination. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
When I look at the motor in my wife's minivan all I can think of is that the darn thing looks like an alien organism that grew there from seeds or something

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here man. There was an odd noise coming from the engine of my service van about a month ago. Its a Ford E250 with a Triton V8. I thought I would have a look and see what it was. I pulled the cover off from inside the cab and just stared open mouthed for a bit, clipped the cover back down and took it to our mechanic, heh.

 

[Steve]

"Actually, you might be able to buy a decent Spridget for the cost of that kit (but I better not "go there", right?)"

Er...........dunno /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I would have to take a better look at the logistics and costs of the whole thing, but so far the concencus seems to be "go for it" but there will be a while before I am in a position to look more seriously at this.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

As I mentioned, I got to thinking about this, too. My concern (other than the price!) is whether reliability and engine life would suffer as a result of adding a supercharger to a stock rebuild - no other modifications.

Mickey

 

[BOXoROCKS]

Not only is it a good idea, it should be mandatory. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

 

[90 XJ-S]

And the good news is...that the next product scheduled for release from Moss is supposed to be a throttle plate injection system (designed to replace the Zenith...But....) Let's see.... Blower,TPI, Cam (a little bottom end work to make sure it's up to it)Wow!! Woops!!! almost forgot their alloy head and low comp pistons (thanks Mark) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

Maybe if a bunch got together /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif we could convince Moss to let us have it for 9 Large apiece /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike

 

[Steve]

"Maybe if a bunch got together we could convince Moss to let us have it for 9 Large apiece"

I really like the way that you think!

 

[90 XJ-S]

Just trying to look out for my fellow board members /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike

 

[Steve_S]

[ QUOTE ]
My concern (other than the price!) is whether reliability and engine life would suffer as a result of adding a supercharger to a stock rebuild - no other modifications.

Mickey

[/ QUOTE ]

More power always equals more wear given equal otherwise components. However, a supercharged engine producing the same power as a built-up normally-aspirated engine will wear less because at lower revolutions there is no additional boost. In the N.A. engine there will be additional stresses even at idle.

 

[NutmegCT]

OK - I'm dense here. Isn't a supercharger useful only at the top end of the tach? You use it only when you're at 4k rpm and above for relatively short bursts ? Seems like $3000 for short-term goosing the 1798 is a tad overkill.

Tom

 

[Mark Beiser]

A supercharger will give you some boost any time it is turning. Having significant boost at lower RPM is one of the main advantages of a supercharger over a turbo, as it gives you power where you most need it for street and autocross driving.

Obviously the boost goes up as the RPMs go up though.

[Edit: Looked at thier system again, removed some incorrect info from my post]

 

[adam90009]

No, I think you are thinking of a turbro. If you look at the dyno graph of a superscarged car there is a smooth increse in power even from idle because you are getting boost at all time.

 

[Sparky]

It sounds like Moss has done a tremendous amount of research on the S.C. as I looked into it myself. There is a great thread with a lot of technical advice including comments from Moss engineers. www.mgcars.org.uk go to bulletin board then Moss Super chargers. ( about 200 replies).

 

[Mark Beiser]

The main thing to keep in mind about the Moss supercharger setup is that they developed it so that it can be bolted up to a stock engine by anyone that has basic mechanical skills and can follow directions.

Having it not blow up a mildly worn, bone stock engine, while giving increased power and torque in the low/mid ranges were primary considderations. The setup doesn't run very high boost levels.

The setup is capable of much more, even with the carb they include with it, but higher boost levels could cause problems with detonation, wich would seriously damage any engine.

I'm just curious what you could get out of it if you acutally built an engine that was intended to be supercharged. With throttle body injection and distributorless ignition run by an engine management system, you can get around the detonation problems caused by higher boost levels. Add water injection, wich most aftermarket engine management systems can control, and fabricate some sort of intercooler, and it could really turn out some fun numbers.

Or you could just do a V6 or V8 conversion, probably for less money....

[Edit: realized I was looking at thier dyno sheet wrong. The power doesn't taper off. I guess that carburetor they are using is better than I thought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ]

 

[MGTF1250Dave]

Aloha Steve,

Moss had an article in their Summer 2003 edition of "British Motoring News" about an owners impressions of the supercharge conversion of an MGB.

Heres a link https://www.britishmotoring.net/PDF/BM0302.pdf

If that doesn't work, you can go to the Moss home page and from there go to the quarterly magazine and find the issue posted there.

Safety Fast,
Dave