ethanol research

[tomshobby]

I was wondering about the possible effects of ethanol in my fuel system so I sent the following question to the website below and received the response which follows the question.
Since others might share this question I am posting it.

A secondary peice of information came with it which is the website with o-ring specifications in regards to resisting chemical deterioration.

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Your question submitted to https://www.drivingethanol.org has
been reviewed by our experts and the answer is below. Please
let us know if you have any other questions or comments.

Thank you for your interest in ethanol!
ethanol ... fill up. feel good.


Q: I have a 1976 Triumph TR6 which is licensed as a collector car. What, if anything, do I need to do so I can be sure ethanol will not harm the fuel system and carburetors? I am often on a forum of thousands of Triumph enthusiasts and it is often a topic of confusion and speculation.

A: Thanks for your question! Allen Davenport, automotive specialist at Ranken Technical college says: Make sure you have a clean fuel tank and lines to start with. Ethanol could deteriorate some of the rubber components in the older fuel systems. Install a filter system in your supply line to the fuel pump, this will trap any crude that might come out of the fuel tank during the initial cleansing period of introduction to E-10 or above. You would do well to check the composition of the internal rubber and maybe leather components of your carburetors for compatibility. https://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SM=none&SC=Ethanol
I hope this information is helpful, and thanks again for taking the time to post a question.

 

[lawguy]

I notice they didn't mention significantly richening the mixture due to the fact that ethanol contains much less energy per unit volume and the lower octane rating or a bunch of other things you may want to do (which are virtually impossible) to keep your car from dying an early death...the most significant one being don't use more than 10% ethanol to begin with.

Don't be tempted to try E85, why bother anyway?

Ethanol has little if any dollars and cents advantage over gas given the lower miles per gallon. While I like the idea of a domestic source of fuel, for the individual, there is little advantage.

 

[tomshobby]

I know there are flaws in the answer. I thought I would post it "as is" and see what comments come up. Maybe send the answers back to see what happens.
I would like to let it all out with out animosities or disrespect and then see if we could get better information.

 

[kennypinkerton]

I've often wondered what would be required to run our cars on propane or even hydrogen... If you could convert the car to run on hydrogen, you could produce the hydrogen at home.

 

[tomshobby]

The only problem with making your own hydrogen is what would the big corporations do to make money? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
On second thought maybe you have something there! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

 

[GregW]

[ QUOTE ]
If you could convert the car to run on hydrogen, you could produce the hydrogen at home.

[/ QUOTE ]
I make methane at home. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[ecurie_ecosse]

Don't we all?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Stuart. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[kennypinkerton]

I like beans /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

...and I guess if we all went with homemade hydrogen, the petrol companies would buy up all of the water supplies, and charge us $5 a gallon for the stuff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ...Oh wait... lots of people pay that for bottled water anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

 

[lawguy]

I don't want to leave the wrong impression. I like the idea of E85 and soy-diesel. I think that emphasizing fuels that are both domestic and will raise grain prices is a win-win. As far as it being able to replace gasoline, we're not there yet, but that's not to say it will not happen. I hope it does.

My comments were related to converting an older car, or any car not designed for "flex fuels" to use high levels of ethanol. It can be done, but it is by no means simple or inexpensive. It certainly is not a simple as they represented it.

Beware advice from an advocacy group. It's like asking PETA about the benefits of being a vegan. There may be some truth in the answer, but exaggeration must be expected.

 

[tomshobby]

I understand the "ring your own bell" message. On the other hand I would think they would pass on more truth than fiction if a large group of people are looking for answers and knowing the results of the message will be out there for the world to read.

As far as grain prices go, they need to go up. We once owned 300 acres and raised crops to feed people. We were taught a very hard lesson, never again.

Of all the economic arguments it seems to me that even if the personal cost of ethanol is the same or even a little more than gasoline that the long term economic effect of keeping the money recirculating in the US would be far better than sending masive amounts out of the country. That alone leads me to believe there is at least some benifit.

Oh, I was a hunter and I make this simple request to others that are. When you kill some game, please eat the animal.

 

[foxtrapper]

Propane conversion kits are on the market, or you can cob it up yourself using EMPCO parts and such. Biggest problem is finding refueling stations. I looked into this myself for my car. With only one refueling station within over 100 miles of home, I couldn't justify doing it, even though I already had some of the components.

Hydrogen would use the same basic components as propane, but the refueling becomes even more problematic. I know of only one hydrogen refueling station in the US.

Ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline.

 

[zblu]

the new synthetic fuels degrade quickly so i have been informed, ie use that tank of fuel,soon or be prepared to watch your 90m ron degrade to ?

 

[kennypinkerton]

You can make your own hydrogen by electrolysis. Granted, commercial equipment to do this may be a bit pricey, but I've built my own setup before (high school science project), and it worked really well. Containment of the gaseous hydrogen is a bit of a problem for the DIY'er, but extracting it from water is very easy.