Dodge Neon Question.. Anyone?

[jsneddon]

My super-snazzy exciting Neon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/pukeface.gif has been overheating off and on for a few months and after replacing the definately defective thermostat and radiator cap I had it running pretty smooth. Temp never climbed up over the 'normal' tick.

So I was pressing my luck last night and I replaced the front brake pads and while I was at it I drained the radiator and replaced the supply of normal water (from all the roadside replacements) with real coolant.

What a stupid idea.

apparently the slickness of the cooling and the trauma of being touched has now lead to the dreaded 'weeping' of coolant from under the engine.

So I'm assuming it is the water pump seal.

The friendly 'internets' reveals that the stupid thing is driven by the timing belt (it's a SOHC 16 valve).

So I might as well replace it at the same time.

So my question is has anyone done one of these? Any tips? supposedly there are timing marks on the cam and engine gears that have to line up a certain way when replacing the belt and if you screw up then you end up with 4 pistons full of valve parts. grrrrrrrrr. I'm gonna get a manual tonight on the way home (if I can make it)

Wish me luck......

 

[kennypinkerton]

When you get the manual... see if it also has counterbalance shaft(s) - usually these run on a belt near or behind the timing belt - if one of them lets go, they can eat the timing belt too. I'd replace it too if I was in there. I've replaced the timing belt and a couple tensioner pulleys and the water pump on my toyota v-6 (sohc)... aligning everything was not that hard to do after I had read about it. The toyota is a non-interference engine though, so I wasn't worried about messing it up if I was 180 off or something.

Line up the crank pulley to TDC before you remove the original timing belt, and you should still be aligned when you go to put the new one on.

 

[DieselBrad673]

Better rent/borrow a pressure tester, if you got it hot. t Neon 4 cylinders are bad on headgaskets.

 

[jsneddon]

Thx. This is a 2nd Generation neon with the better gasket. Compression tests fine. Actually I'm rather surprised since I got it critically hot a couple of times. It's a beater-commuter but I'd like to squeeze another year out of it if possible.

Picked up a Haynes and it seems decent enough but we'll see when I actually do the job on Monday. We all know how un-reliable a Haynes can be /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Timing the valves seems pretty straightforward... they've got a bunch of marks in there to get it right. My biggest concern right now is how much of a bear the crank pulley is going to be to get off.

 

[kennypinkerton]

Haynes isn't really unreliable, it's just that they only tore down one car covered by the manual, and it might be slightly different on a different year. Oh, and the dreaded "assembly is the reverse of disassembly". Just keep track of all the parts, the order in which they come off, and where they go. I usually tape the bolts to the part - in the holes they go in. Just to make sure they go back where they belong. Label any electrical connections and vacuum lines you might have to remove, etc.

Good luck!

 

[78Z]

Let me know how it goes - I'll have to do my 2000 Neon soon if I keep it. You know people make fun of Neons but mine's been amazingly reliable.

 

[jsneddon]

I'll let you know and try to take some pics along the way. I'm leaving for cub scout camp with the boy this morning and I've got Monday off to tackle the pump.

Thank god the 100+ stuff has moved east. The thought of 3 days roasting in tents was not something I was looking foward to but now it should be nice and cool up by Lake Arrowhead (about 5000-ish feet)

I refuse to comment on how reliable my Neon has been at the risk of jinxing myself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Apparently changes were made at the 2000 year that really cleared up some of the bad rap it got on the early years. It would be a little more interesting to drive if it weren't an automatic though.

 

[kennypinkerton]

I'd like to try an SRT-4 on for size someday. Looks like a fun car. My neighbor has a regular older Neon, and the only thing I can say about it, is she needs a new power steering belt soon... it squeals every morning as she backs out of her driveway.

 

[78Z]

Mine is a 5spd - reasonably fun to drive but revs quite high on the highway (geared like that only for 2000 apparently). I got a ride in a SRT-4 with professional driver at the wheel - fast little bugger.

 

[jsneddon]

Dodge Neon Water Pump and Timing Belt Replacement

Well... for the benifit of 78Z here's the (very long) rundown on replacing a water pump and timing belt on a 2000 Dodge Neon. (and since this site gets crawled and indexed very quickly maybe some poor soul out there in the internets will stumble across our little shade-tree garage too)

The Haynes manual is fairly useful (how's that for a glowing review). I'd recommend getting it regardless of some incorrect suggestions. The general step by step stuff for getting the timing cover off is good and the info on checking the timing with the new belt is useful.

The book goes through taking off the power steering pump, both belts, and all the plastic covers in the wheel well - I'll leave that to the book - no problems there.

The crankshaft pulley has to come off after you get the belts off. A regular 3 arm gear puller will NOT work. AutoZone has a harmonic balancer puller for Dodge that you can borrow with a $65 refundable deposit. It has a hollow bolt and a long pin that goes in to the hole where the bolt was on the pulley. You could get by with a regular puller if you stick a 6 inch 1/4 inch socket extension bar in the hole and then put the pressure on the end of the extension. If you can rent the right tool I'd do it. Funky arms on pullers might screw up the pulley.

So... since this is a transverse-mounted 4 you need to disconnect the right (passenger) side of the engine from the frame to get to the belt and pump. The book says to remove the lower torsion strut completely but you only need to remove the bolt that attaches to the engine and let the strut hang from the frame. I supported the engine with a floor jack AND a bottle jack with blocks of wood.

The upper strut definitely needs to be removed completely but it is no big deal.

Now for the fun part. The right engine mount plate is part of the timing belt cover. It has to come off. The book explains that you need to remove the right upper engine mount from the frame and shows a picture of 2 of the 4 bolts to do this. This is where they went horribly wrong. DO NOT REMOVE THESE BOLTS. They are 1.5 inches long and have to come out of a 1 inch clearance between the engine and the frame. They will not come out. And if you did get them out you'll then find that they hold in an assembly that is 3 inches deep into the frame and you are never getting that out without removing the engine completely.

What the book fails to mention at all is that in the center of this assembly is a 4 inch long bolt holding the engine to the frame. You get to it by removing the rubber plug from inside the wheel well by the shock. Inside this plug is a huge Torx-head bolt. This is the only bolt you need to remove! Leave those 4 bolts on the other side alone. An 8mm allen wrench will fit perfectly in the Torx and loosens it without dinking the head at all.

The engine mount plate that this big Torx attaches to has to come off now and it is held on by 3 bolts that are 3 inches long. Remember the 1 inch clearance between the plate and the frame? Yup... Somehow these bolts have to come out of this space. The book talks about supporting the engine from the bottom but it doesn't mention the fact that in order to do this job you are going to need to jack up the engine very carefully about 5 or 6 inches on the right side to get at these bolts. Be careful and watch all the hoses and whatnot. There is enough flex built into the exhaust that you can do it without breaking anything.

Once you get the mount plate off then the rest of the instructions in the book are valid. Play close attention to the timing marks on the crank and the cam. The book explains it correctly.

Oh... To replace the water pump the back plastic timing belt cover has to come off too but to get it off you'd have to take off the camshaft pulley... I did not do that. Once all the bolts are removed holding the rear cover on I was able to pry it away from the water pump enough to get in there and remove all the bolts without removing the cover completely.

OH... I FORGOT... when you are putting the right mount plate back on over the timing cover be sure to put the 3 inch bolts in the holes BEFORE you fiddle the plate back onto the engine. There will be _just_ enough clearance. That was a good hour wasted right there.

Once I got the side plate back on I then re-attatched the rear torsion strut first. By this time the engine had shifted back about 4 inches. I was able to get a small bottle jack in behind the engine and pushed it forward enough for the bottom bolt to line up. Then it took some more fiddling to get that big Torx bolt back into the hole.

After that the rest is gravy buttoning stuff back up. And I only ended up with one extra bolt !!!! (but it turns out that I know where it is supposed to go and I threw away the cover it was holding)

It took me a good 11 solid hours of wrenching. If I did it again I could do it in about 5. I wasted a lot of time with those stupid engine mount bolts.

As god is my witness I will never buy another front wheel drive car again!

 

[78Z]

Re: Dodge Neon Water Pump and Timing Belt Replacem

Wow - many thanks for typing all of that up! All seems do-able but learning from your experiance is definitely appriciated. I'll definitely seek out the right puller.