Spitfire Do you think it's worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

[JBann]

Hello everyone,

As I asked and found out in my previous thread, I can fit quite comfortably in a Triumph Spitfire as I am looking to purchase one.

Today I went to see the one I was interested in. It is a 1964 Mk1 finished in old English white on red vinyl interior. It comes with both a soft top and original hardtop (paint seems OK and headliner is decent).

From driving the car, it seems mechanically sound. No whines from differentials, brakes are even, no misfiring, all gears seem fine, steering is good, and everything on the car functions (lights, wipers, heater, and blinkers).

The car looks good from 6-10 feet. But when you get close you can notice some light rust on the very bottom rocker panel on the passenger side and moderate rust right behind the front wheel well on the rocker panel on the driver side. There is some rust on the lower trunk lid where it meets the bottom half of the boot. There is also some hint of yellowing/browning paint on the chrome line accents that lead along the car on both sides. Otherwise I think the car looks pretty okay. Is this rust a big no-no or something that can be worked with? I looked under the car and there seems to be no chassis rust.

The current owner is the 2nd owner of the car and bought it in 1979 when he brought it to PA. Previously a women owned it in NJ for 15 years. It was always garaged. He has papers from the work done on the car. He had the door side panels and seats reupholstered. Carburetors were rebuilt last year, new tires and spark plugs. The front badges are currently off the car but come with it along with a complete mechanical manual for the car.

The owner's price is $4500.00. Do you think that price is decent for the car? The car appeals to me especially because it is an early model. I have yet to find another early model for sale in PA at a decent price.

Here are links to the pictures as the are large. If you would like smaller pictures embedded in my post, please let me know.

Thank you,

Jan Wessel

 

[JBann]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

And a few more pictures if no one minds.

 

[NutmegCT]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

I'm not a Spitfire guy, but some general impressions:

Front and rear bumpers are askew. Accident or bad bump history?

Bonnet doesnt' seem to have closed fully; a bent frame or door?

What's the rust situation down below (undercarriage/suspension)?

Original steel wheels could be (badly) bent and cause vibration at speed.

Electricals and gauges all work?

Rust in the engine compartment? especially under the battery and master cylinder area?

Are all the service records available?

Rust visible anywhere on the surface is often just the top of the iceberg.

Paint solid? original? recently repainted?

Edit: pull up any floor mats or carpets. Floorpans can be nasty rust surprises.

Just my two cents. Now sit back and wait for the *real* Spitfire guys to chime in!

Tom

 

[JKB1957]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

I am in the process of restoring a completely rusted out 1966 Spitfire Mk2, so I'm biased. With regards to your car, it's a runner, looks to be complete, has a hardtop, and doesn't have any obvious major rust. If it has floorboards I would say it's worth the price, as you can drive it as you fix it up/restore it.

 

[JBann]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

I'm not a Spitfire guy, but some general impressions:

Front and rear bumpers are askew. Accident or bad bump history? No accidents, can't explain why they are askew. <span style="font-style: italic">Car was repainted 10 years ago, perhaps they were never put back on properly?</span>

Bonnet doesnt' seem to have closed fully; a bent frame or door? <span style="font-style: italic">We had the bonnet open, we didn't latch it/close it fully. Unless even so that is a sign of something bent.</span>

What's the rust situation down below (undercarriage/suspension)? <span style="font-style: italic">I peaked under and it looked pretty good, no rust from what I can tell. Suspension appeared okay, but can't give any further detail. There was no sagging or odd bouncing.</span>

Original steel wheels could be (badly) bent and cause vibration at speed.<span style="font-style: italic"> We went up to 50mph, didn't notice any vibration. Is there any easy way to check?</span>

Electricals and gauges all work?<span style="font-style: italic"> Yes.</span>

Rust in the engine compartment? especially under the battery and master cylinder area? <span style="font-style: italic">I didn't look under the battery/master cylinder area sadly. </span>

Are all the service records available?<span style="font-style: italic"> Yes.</span>

Rust visible anywhere on the surface is often just the top of the iceberg. <span style="font-style: italic">This is what worries me.</span>

Paint solid? original? recently repainted? <span style="font-style: italic"> Repainted 10 years ago, front badges still off.</span>

Edit: pull up any floor mats or carpets. Floorpans can be nasty rust surprises. <span style="font-style: italic">No Floor pan rust that I saw.
</span>

Thank you very much Tom! I will have to keep all that in mind.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

Somehow, you didn't get (or didn't post) a really good full-on frontal shot of the car. But from what I can see, it appears to be pretty straight there. However, I suspect it might be a long-ago replacement bonnet, as it appears to sport Mk2 grilles. Also, I can't tell if it has the TRIUMPH letters and "shield" badge on the nose. Given all that, it's worth carefully examining the front part of the chassis for any bends, buckles, cracks or welding. Of course, being so low, the noses on these are very vulnerable, so a replacement bonnet might well have been all that was required, with no other damage to the rest of the car. For what it's worth, the amber lenses should be outboard, not inboard. (Technically, that's a home market specification, as the US-spec. cars had white lenses for park and flasher both.)

As for the sills, look for three holes near the bottom seam of each one, and look for a vertical seam a few inches forward of the "B" post. If the seam or holes aren't there, chances are filler is, and things merit much closer examination in this area. (Sometimes rust damage can be seen from the inside by carefully peeling back carpeting in that area.)

Beyond that, it looks to have pretty good shut lines, and the interior and engine bay seem to be pretty much as original. Early cars with factory hardtops are fairly rare, so that is a big plus.

Did you happen to make note of the commission number?

With the above caveats in mind, my gut reaction is that the asking price is in the ballpark.

(Ok, I happen to be a bit biased, since white with red interior is just about my favorite livery for Triumphs!)

 

[Andrew Mace]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

We're almost conversing in real time here! You answered a couple of my questions before I got the chance to type them in. Based on some of your subsequent comments, I'm slowly getting an even better feeling about the car. I still think it's worth closer examination of the sills as best you possibly can, via eye and via refrigerator magnet on the outside...and carefully check the underside, where the floorpan meets with the sill as well as the same from inside the car. If it felt good @ 50, chances are you're good there. Worst case scenario: you can always get different wheels if they prove bad, but I love the early cars in all-stock form, skinny disc wheels and all!

 

[JBann]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

I did take a frontal nose picture, and looking at it now, I didn't realize how askew the right side is. :confuse: Now I am not sure if the bonnet was closed on that side though as we had it open earlier.

The owner did give me a letter from the Jaguar Rover Triumph Inc. dealership he purchased it from. They said that they were advised by the factory that:
Manufactured: September 11, 1963
Engine No. - 15078FG
Colour Scheme - White with Red and vinyl Trim

I hope that bonnet is not a really bad indicator. I really like the car!

 

[Andrew Mace]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

I think the bonnet is probably just fine; it's the alignment that seems way off with it and perhaps the front bumper and valence as well. That could be the result of a good paintjob followed by uncaring or unknowing reassembly of various bits. I wouldn't worry, as there's tons of adjustment available (absolute worst case scenario is a few minutes' worth of frame straightening, but I doubt that's necessary).

Interesting, that one number, as "FG" has nothing to do with an early Spitfire. I'll assume it's actually the body number, and it ends in FC, just as the commission number and engine number begin with FC (or should). But that number is about "in range" for that built date...which would still have the small L594 "beehive" lenses up front for both lamps, etc.

 

[JBann]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

Ah, very good, I was worried about that bonnet! As for the FG, I noticed that as well, but perhaps it was a typo from the dealership as they sent it. The letter is from 1980, one year after the owner purchased it.

The car is not perfect, but I think that is what intrigues me. I was to learn about these fantastic little sports cars while building a good mechanical background. If I do buy it, it will be my first classic and first sports car in my 18years of age!

 

[Andrew Mace]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

For what it's worth, the front should look more like this:

Notice how relatively well the "shut lines" meet up. But the white car really isn't that far off; again, probably nothing that a few minutes' adjustment can't fix. And the "nose" itself looks quite straight from your picture, which is pretty rare on early Spitfires.

 

[JBann]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

Very good, thank you very much for your many responses Andrew!
At $4,500.00 I don't want to be over paying for the car either, but at the same time I don't want to bicker with the owner about taking a couple hundred dollars off at his loss (not something I would feel good about, esp. since he is retired).

So as long as you feel that the price is decent and in the ballpark I will seriously have to consider purchasing this car.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

Low / average / high retail prices for this car, according to nadaguides.com (and specific to the Albany, NY, area but probably close enough here):

$4,650 $7,550 $10,800

Again, going only by pictures, I'm seeing a car somewhere between "low" and "average" retail by their standards...so the price is looking better all the time!

(It can't hurt to offer $4k as a start, though!)

 

[Silverghost]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

I only have 2 words - "Buy" and "It"!!

If you feel you have a good rapport with the seller, when you get a quiet moment, say, "I have to ask, my parents (didn't catch you were 18 the first time ) will not be happy if I don't, will you take $4000?" It's worked for me on more than one ocassion!

And if you DON'T buy it, give ME the contact info....of course I'll have to rob a bank and/or win the lottery first!! LOL

 

[Andrew Mace]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

Hey, Peter, the line forms behind ME! (Uh, that's the bank or lottery ticket line...the only way I could get this car, too!)

 

[JBann]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

Haha, everyone after me! I think my father and I are set on the car. Quick question, how does one go about registering and getting plates for this vehicle. Will a notary have historic plates or temporary plates when we go to transfer the title? I am quite naive to this matter.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

No clue, as I'm in NY and have never had to deal with PA's DMV!

 

[3798j]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

Not all notaries would necessarily be familiar with antique tag registration, but my feeling is a phone call ahead would answer that question. Here is PA's information on the correct steps needed to apply: https://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-ant.pdf

 

[booley]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

One question related to your other thread:

Did you fit in the car ok?

 

[JBann]

Re: Do you think its worth it? - 1964 Spitfire MK1

Yes! Luckily I fit fine with room to spare, even with the original 16" steering wheel!