Spitfire Buying a Spitfire barn find

[karls59tr]

I just got a call from a friend that has located a Triumph Spitfire that may be restorable. Apparently the floors look good under the carpet. Car is complete. Motor and trans are out of the car. Going to look at it tommorrow. I'm basically a TR3 guy and not too familiar with Spifires. Is there anything relating to this model TR that I should be aware of when I check it out? It's going cheap.

 

[71MKIV]

do the pick thing on the rockers and sills, especially at the front where the whole door and windshield hang on it. Frame rot, epsecially around the pumpkin. Engine free? Trans free and can move the shift lever? Will it roll? Is everything there. Why is the engine and trans out? Any goodies? o/d, hard top?

It's not hard all it takes is money.

 

[Trevor Triumph]

Look at the rear valance, rust, the part of it as it curves under the car. Look at rear fenders from the side and top to see the curve. If the car has been hit from the back, there may be damage there. Yes, it is true, "it just take money."

T.T.

 

[sabot]

Rust in the battery tray,,
Tom

 

[guzzul]

Check out thread "Common Spitfire weaknesses" in this forum. February, 2007.

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/topics/252665/Common_Spitfire_weaknesses

Don't let it scare you off. If the body is in good shape, pretty well everything else is fixable and not too expensive. Spitfires do not fetch the big-bucks some other LBC's get (not yet at least), so you have to be careful about how much money you sink into it.

 

[karls59tr]

Thanks for the advice from this forum. I ended up buying the car as a possible future project. It's a green 1975 1500. No rad or bellhousing otherwise the car is complete. Motor is a basket case...maybe the thrust washers gave out and the PO took the motor apart and never got around to reassembly? The body looks Ok but as some have pointed out there are rust issues where the floor meets the sides in the footwell.... about 1&1/2" of missing metal for about 8" but this looks like L shaped pieces could be welded in. Drivers floor is rusty but no holes. Also surface rust in the brake/clutch master clylinder area. Everything else looks reasonably solid including the sills. I'll have to go under to check around the Diff and look for problems. Mice have turned the seats into a hotel/banquet areabut the frames should be OK. What's this I hear about Miata seats fitting a Spitfire? I think the way to go with this Spitfire is to obtain a used low mile engine (preferably a MK1V lump and trans if possible). I'd like to stay away from the USA Stromberg version and go for the SU's. Any thoughts on this? The car has potential and would make a good summer runabout for my lady friend. Only paid $200 for it and saved it from a trip to the shredder. Karl

 

[Trevor Triumph]

The price sounds good. If you can find an eight port manifold and use S.U.s, you'll get more power from the 1296 engine. Early MkIII engines have that set up. Later MkIII and MkIvs I believe have the single Z.S. The difference in horse power is thirty or forty more with the S.U.s And yes, Miata seats will fit, but the seats appear to be very tall. T.T.

 

[karls59tr]

Thanks.That's good information on the motor. I'll keep my eye out for an early MkIII 1296.I wonder how easy it would be to track one down? Is that the same engine that was in Midgets and Sprites? Do you know of any other Brit cars that had that motor? CK.

 

[eejay56]

That sounds like a great price. I think Trevor misread your post and thought you had the 1296 with a single Stromberg. The 1500 is rated at more horsepower and torque than the 1296 and is a good street engine. The small crank 1296 is prized by racers because it's more reliable at high rpms and so can be hard to find. Although I do know where a 71 with a small crank 1296 is available if anybody is interested. Midgets had the 1500. Twin SU HS4s are a good choice for the 1500 but it's a little harder to find the manifold since that setup wasn't exported to the US. They do turn up on EBay occasionally. The 1296 used twin HS2s.

 

[Andrew Mace]

The price sounds good. If you can find an eight port manifold and use S.U.s, you'll get more power from the 1296 engine. Early MkIII engines have that set up. Later MkIII and MkIvs I believe have the single Z.S. The difference in horse power is thirty or forty more with the S.U.s And yes, Miata seats will fit, but the seats appear to be very tall. T.T.

Specifically, the Mk3 in the US had the twin SUs through the 1969 model year, after which the single Stromberg was used. But the difference in horsepower really wasn't nearly dramatic, nor was it due only to the SUs. In particular, camshaft, compression, timing and other changes (including how those figures were calculated and by which standard they were reported) also made a difference between the early Mk3 with 75 hp, later "emissions" Mk3 with 68 hp, the 1970 (last of the small-journal versions) and 1971 (first "large-journal" version) with single Stromberg with somewhere above 60 hp (figures often not reported for those years), and finally the 48 hp of the low-compression, recessed-bore 1972 "Federal" 1296.

 

[frankenstang57]

No rad or bellhousing otherwise the car is complete.

Only paid $200 for it and saved it from a trip to the shredder. Karl

Sounds like a great deal!

If you need a bell housing for a 3 rail trans I've got one, cheap. '75 was the year they went to the single, isn't Andy?

 

[Andrew Mace]

If you need a bell housing for a 3 rail trans I've got one, cheap. '75 was the year they went to the single, isn't Andy?

Yes, it is!

 

[71MKIV]

stock Miata seats are a good choice if you are less than 5' 10" tall. If you are taller than that you have to take them apart and saw 1 and 1/2 inches off the seat bottom so you can see out the windshield with the top up. They also solve the problem of what to do with the radio speakers. They are not quite a bolt in but for someone who is a reasonably competent mechanic it's not hard. The other problem is that they don't center you on the steering wheel because of how the originals where shaped but that's a "get used to it" type of problem.

Figure 700 dollars a seat to buy the stuff to redo the originals, don't ask me how I know. Or if you do it yourself a lot of time.

Parts are relatively cheap until you get to the interior. Figure better then half your budget for the interior.

 

[Mark Jones]

Figure 700 dollars a seat to buy the stuff to redo the originals, don't ask me how I know. Or if you do it yourself a lot of time.

Parts are relatively cheap until you get to the interior. Figure better then half your budget for the interior.

$700 a seat to redo? Holy crap. I did both my 1500's seats myself for less than that and it only took an afternoon to rebuild them.

I do agree that the interior panels are way too expensive for what you are getting. It would have been in the order of $700 for all the panels. I bought masonite, vinyl and foam and made them for about $100.

 

[karls59tr]

Hi Steve and Mark "Saw 1&1/2" off seat bottom" .Is this a 3 or 4" piece of steel that you can cut down with a hack saw? I've never seen a Miata seat bottom so am having trouble visualizing this. Are you guys running the stock motors for your Spitfires? Did I understand previous posts correctly in that a 74-80 Spit or Midget motor was made back in the day with a 1500 motor and H4 SU's? That's what I would like to put in my 75. CK

 

[tdskip]

Sorry if this was in an earlier post, but you can order a Euro SU set up for a 1500 from Ted at TSI. It will come dirty but by all accounts it really wakes up the engine.

Try and fine an OD transmission if you can, it makes a huge difference in how you'll use her. (speaking from experience with my 1973 Spitfire)

 

[Andrew Mace]

Did I understand previous posts correctly in that a 74-80 Spit or Midget motor was made back in the day with a 1500 motor and H4 SU's? That's what I would like to put in my 75. CK

That was the typical "home market" specification, with the dual SU HS4 carbs, etc. Again, you'd need camshaft and other changes as mentioned previously to gain full benefit from the dual SUs (or most any other carb. change, for that matter).

 

[DanB]

For more power and reliability, you could consider:
https://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/LarryBreitkreitz.htm
https://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/MaxBrewster.htm
https://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/MikeReynolds.htm
https://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/BarrySchwartz.htm
https://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/CarstenUllerup.htm

Dan Blackwood
S. Charleston, WV
66 TR4A IRS EFI
80 TR7 DHC

 

[71MKIV]

actually cutting the seat down involves swiping your wife's electric knife, the one she only uses at thanksgiving, and doing some creative carving on the foam. Clean the blades up and put it back before she notices. The metal part of the frame stays intact.

The motor in my spit is balanced and blueprinted, mild street cam, header and monza exhaust, modified thrust washer, manual choke Weber DGV carb ( I would use the dual carb setup if I was redoing the engine now) single rail o/d and gear reduction starter. It's fast enough to get out of it's own way. Eventually I want to put the dual carbs on one of Ted Schumaucher's stage two heads on it.

Join the North American Spitfire Squadron Yahoo group, and work up your suppliers.

TS Imports, Ted
SpitBits, Nigel
Both are great guys and have forgotten more than most of us will ever know.0

 

[Mark Jones]

My Spitfire's 1500 engine is no longer stock.

Only a few months after buyin the car in 2002 I replace the single Stromberg with a twin HS4 setup; much better performance. The car can now get out of its own way. You can get the twin SU setup with manifold from Ted Schumacher and others or from one of the suppliers in England. I think I got mine from James Paddock. Obsolete Auto here in Sarnia has a used 1500 twin SU manifold for $200, which is too much I think.

This past winter I rebuilt the engine and installed high compression pistons and Ted Schumacher's 275-4 cam and I also installed a 1500 UK spec exhaust manifold I bought from Christian Hollum Imports. Dorval, QU. Hopefully this weekend I'll get around to actually starting the engine.

For Canadian suppliers, Obsolete Automotive, https://www.obsoleteauto.com/, have a good supply of Spitfire parts and a good bimonthly newpaper but their regular prices are high. My favourite is Christian Hollum Imports, https://www.christianhollumimports.ca/. I have had good success with Ted Schumacher, Spit Bits and The Roadster Factory in the US.