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Bumped to Prepared Class.

Baz

Yoda
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My Datsun 210 gearbox has unsurprisingly sent me packing from H stock (Solo II) into the wonderful world of XP.
Oh boy.
Now that I'm in there (and can't get out unless I put my ribcase back in) and I have an all I can eat buffet of what modifications I can do to the car, I suppose I will.
My question really, now that I've calmed down, is regarding performance modifications on a budget, I can do to make me competative; or at least post some respectable times faster than what I would have in HS.
This post is also a grovel and / or beg...
If anyone has ANY obsolete, or unused race equipment that they can part with, please let me know. I'm talking BIG anti-roll bars, lowered springs (F+R), old wheels, rubber, ANYTHING I can get that won't kill me $ wise. Cams, rockers, headers, 4.2 rear end.........
I think the cars show days are over, so I'm not worried about appearance these mods give me.
I appreciate your help guys.
If I'm going to stay in XP, then I'm going to win it.
 

ChrisS

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Barry,

What rules do you run by? If you are following SCCA Solo II then this is a bump, but not to XP; it should be GP. Either way you're screwed on being competitive since the PAX of an ES Miata is 0.817, GP is 0.847, and AS is 0.842 so you need to be competitive with a WRX STi which isn't going to happen.

I would try a protest on the out of production rule:

14.11 Out-of-Production Cars
Where a car is out of production and the manufacturer is either out of business, stocks no parts or no longer has a required part, a part of any origin but as similar as possible to the original may be substituted. The entrant must be prepared to show documentary evidence that one of the three circumstances above applies and that the substituted part is as similar as possible under the circumstances. Substitute parts which provide improvements in performance (e.g. superior gearing, lighter weight, better camshaft profile, etc.) are not permitted under this allowance.

I doubt it will fly but you can give it a try.
 
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Easy there cowboy!

Take a breath.

You didn't gain much advantage with the five speed. Actually, you lost some because 2nd gear is too low. I'd stay with the 3.9 rear end and focus on tuning the engine (probably with a header) and suspension. Change one thing at a time. I would start with a heavier roll bar (one of those Addco deals is cheap, but you may need stiffer endlink bushings), then possibly look at adding some stiffer valve shocks (TR6 is what I think Peter mentioned). Ooops back up. Pick your tires/rims first. Find a nice soft compound tire that will fit on your rims; try to get a low profile in a 165 or 175 width (good luck). It seems your best resource would be that shoeless guy. (Or is he now a competitor) :wink:

Maybe a real guru will chime in here in a minute, but I think you could be competitive with little money, hard work, and practice.
 
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After reviewing Chris's numbers... I'll retract my statement being competitive.

:frown:
 
OP
Baz

Baz

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Chris, Thanks.
I'm following SCCA rules, but in that 339 page rule book, I hadn't gotten that far. I don't see why it wouldn't fly in all honesty.
The only real appreciable advantage, is the synchro'd first gear, and with the exception of the MGA, can you find any other vehicle in the class that doesn't have a synchro'd first? Even the B210 is in HS!
Are those the Solo rules you are quoting? My has rules for STS2 for 14.11.
 
OP
Baz

Baz

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Trevor Jessie said:
Easy there cowboy!

Take a breath.

I've been trying to calm down for 3 days, and haven't made any descisions in that time.
I want to be:
a: Competative in a comparable class.
b: In compliance with the rules.
c: Fair.
There's no real grey area here, it's either HS and illegal, or XP and pathetic.

Chris, the tech group at SCCA put me in XP, although I was under the impression that GP would fit also, but because the gearbox is from a different manufacturer, it constitutes a swap.
 

racingenglishcars

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Why don't you just stick with the ribcase?
The Datsun box isn't 5 speed is it?
If it is, that would certainly bump your class, and the 4 speed Datsun box isn't really an advantage over the ribcase.
If you want to be fair, you won't be competitive. Especially in a modified class. There's too much japanese stuff you can't compete against. And trying will cost a whole lot of money.
 

ChrisS

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Baz said:
Chris, the tech group at SCCA put me in XP, although I was under the impression that GP would fit also, but because the gearbox is from a different manufacturer, it constitutes a swap.
But in the prepared category any non-sequential gearbox is allowed. Going to prepared is a bump in itself, going from GP to XP is 6 bumps within the prepared class plus the stock to prepared bump for an overall 7 class jump.

Was the class change due to a competitor protest of your swap or was it from tech? I would talk to the other regular HS participants and see if they have an issue with your swap. If they don't then you could make a case for the out of production exemption, otherwise they are within their rights to put you in prepared as silly as it sounds. I would make a table of your gear ratios to show them that there is really no advantage. If they bring up a syncro 1st gear just remind them that final drive ratios are free so you could have put in a 5.38:1 rear with a stock ribcase and used 2nd gear as a syncro'd first.

If you run with a friendly group then you might be OK, don't plan on this working at a regional or national event though.
 

bill_young

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Barry, for perhaps the best solution have you considered just getting another Spridget to run in Solo and keep you present car for road use? I really don't think you want to lose the road use of your car and the mods you're talking about to be competitive would really take you out of that. Building a second car has it's costs but overall if you're really serious about the Solo performance then you really should have a purpose built car for that to take maximum advantage of the rules for what ever class you run in.
If you want to get real serious about a Spridget in the modifed class then I have some wheels you might be interested in, two 13X7 and two 13X7.5 slot types. Get your checkbook and go to Hoosier and you'll have all the rubber you need to start getting into the one G area.
 

tosoutherncars

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I can't see how 14.11 would fly. You'd claim you had to swap because your original part was out of manufacture and out of stock, but ask to be allowed to switch to a Datsun part that is out of manufacture and out of stock?

I don't know my elbow from my arse, as far as SCCA is concerned, but it certainly sounds like moving back to the stock gearbox might be your best move. Do you really end up needing 5th that much, and enough to warrant getting bumped up?
 
OP
Baz

Baz

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OK, I found the rule, 15.11, it applies to Street Prepared.
It's not too dificult to get into F class Street Prepared, just put some stacks on the carbs, then play the OOP card.
FSP also allows suspension mods and wheel sizes, and allows me to be legal and competative....
Much better now......
I'll run that by the region. See what happens.
Thanks guys. Thanks Chris for finding that.
BTW My ribcase is pretty trashed, it would cost more to rebuild than some of the mods allowed in FSP, so the Midget can remain streetable with a little more grunt.
 

no_cones_ever

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alright dude, check it.

we went through the same situation 2 years ago. when we originally started, we were running HS/ST because the sprite was new to us, and we still had street tires on it. second year we tried running ST2 which is a local class wuith miatas...we didn't really comply with the rules because the car was too heavily modified[1380cc joe huffaker built engine, datsun 5 speed, 3.90's, bfoodrich comp t/a's, suspension, axles, etc.]...so we ran GP, nobody else ran with us until this year, so we kinda started our own class...

but too make a long story short, go into GP and no one should argue with you.
 

blkcorvair

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I thought you could lock out a gear in the datsun box with the rivergate kit that would effectivly give you a 4 spd. Can you change the gearbox in solo with the same number of forward gears without taking a bump?
 
OP
Baz

Baz

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They're not buying that Scott. It's still a lump from another manufacturer, whether you lock out 5th, 6th or 13th.
They've put me in SM2, where drivetrain swaps, except for the engine block are unrestricted, and I don't need a roll bar like I would in GP, so I'm OK with that. It also gives me some freedom to mess with the suspension, add things and remove things and also some HP mods....
 

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