bugeye starter wire help

[ichthos]

In an earlier post, I mentioned how my starter was not working. I followed through on all your tips on what to check out. Even though everything was basically new, and my battery appeared to be charged, I found that the battery was just low enough to not allow the starter to engage correctly. When I took my starter to a local repair shop (who said my starter worked great) he mentioned that I might consider upgrading leads so that there was less resistance which would allow easier starts. So my questions are: 1)Which leads would I need to upgrade? 2) is there a source for upgraded leads? Your help is greatly appreciated.
Kevin

 

[Rut]

Kevin,
You could go to a heavier gauge wire and make sure you have really clean lugs. I like marine cables with tin coating just because it doesn't oxidize. Use them on my tractors since it gives me really long life and they crank every time.
Rut

 

[ichthos]

Which wires would I replace? I know I would have to replace the positive battery lead to the solenoid. Would I replace the lead from the solenoid to the starter also? What about the battery ground? What size wire leads would I ask for?
Kevin

 

[Deleted member 8987]

I think #1 on my list on that thread was "charge the battery".

 

[smaceng]

Kevin, you need to try to either jump your battery and then try it again, or substitute a known good battery. If you used wires which were original or were designed for the BE, then that should be fine. The BE needs the smallest starter wires of any British car. TOC was right.
Whenever my car does not start-regardless of make, the FIRST thing I test is the battery!
Scott in CA

 

[The_architect]

Scott, could you explain why the BE needs the smallest starter wires [I presume you mean cables] of any British car? Is that because a starter turning a 948cc engine draws less amperage than the same starter turning a larger engine? I'm just curious, cause if I'm not mistaken the starters are all pretty much the same (unless you have a gear reduction starter).

I have thought about getting larger gauge cables for my BE (I have a 1275 engine). I would probably go from the standard 4 gauge cables to 1 gauge perhaps. But I have wondered if it would make any difference. If the conductor in the solenoid is no bigger than the 4 gauge cable why would it help to uprate the cables?

One can order larger gauge cables from beiterbattery.com, by the way, or get them from Tractor Supply.

Charlie

 

[smaceng]

The BE engines are realitively small, the cables are short, the demand loads on the battery from the electric components are at a minimum. All that adds up to the demands on the battery and the starter are low compared to other cars. What I meant for Kevin, is he was looking to the cables as being the cause of his starting problems. If the connections are tight, and with proper grounds, and a good solenoid, all of the evidence points to a problem with the battery, not the cables.
Scott in CA

 

[The_architect]

Thank you, Scott.

 

[ichthos]

I knew I was going to be reprimanded about the battery, but I thought I <span style="font-style: italic">had </span>checked the battery. I have one of those battery testers that lights up according to how many volts the battery has. It showed 12 volts so I thought I was fine. I was not ignoring any of the advice. So, how do you really know when a battery is charged? Obviously what I did did not work. I have to put the starter in this weekend and then I will try jumping it to see what happens. I replaced the positive cable from the battery to the solenoid, but the cable from the solenoid to the starter is original and I am not sure how good it is. I will let you all know what happens this weekend. Thanks for all the help.
Kevin

 

[The_architect]

Kevin, If your starter-to-solenoid cable is original, it might not hurt to replace it. I think the assumption was that you had already done that. Corrosion does occur between the copper cable strands inside the terminal, where you can't see it--so it can look okay and still be causing you a problem even if your battery is fully charged.

Charlie

 

[RickB]

Doesn't anyone own battery chargers any more?

You know, the thing you plug into your house or garage electrical outlet and then hook up the red wire to the positive side of your battery and the black to the negative and let it run until something on the device indicates the battery has been charged up?

I've had one of these for 30+ years, I use it at least once a year for something either a riding mower or a car or something. I think it cost me $30 so it's averaged out to a buck a year.

I guess it's not safe to assume anything.

Like assuming your cable is actually good from end to end.
Do you own a multimeter?
Then check for the voltage reading from the generator - just because something is new doesn't mean it's good. Doesn't mean it's not good either - trust but verify.

I have a nice Fluke 77 I bought 20 years ago, but I also have a cheap Chinese meter that has settings for tach and dwell and temperature and it even came with probes for temperature and all kinds of stuff for about $25.

You really can't tell if a wire is good enough to handle current with a test light, I know some people will say BS on that. While a test light will tell you that you have basic conductivity it does nothing to test current, a bad wire or connection will heat up and break under load and a test light does not provide load.
Using a meter on ohms you should see near to 0 ohms from end to end on your wiring. If it's higher then check connections and look for damage.

If your battery is fully charged and you are still not getting any action at your starter then work your way back. Is there any damage to the wiring? Are any of the connections corroded? Is the ground wire from the battery to the body good at both ends? You have to check at each connection until you find the culprit and sometimes it will be more than one.

Sometimes you can find this with a fully charged battery by trying to start it from up front, you might hear a sizzle or a pop that will lead you to look at a bad connection.

I agree that larger wires are likely not needed but that good wires are needed, and good clean connections all the way through.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

To check a battery, plug it into a good charger for the specified time. I have several old 6-amp units, run them overnight.
Then try to start it.
I have a battery load tester, which really tells you condition AFTER a full recharge. Testing discharged batteries is not an option.
Discharged batteries will always test....discharged.
A poor-man's battery load tester is a voltmeter across the battery terminals, place meter on windscreen, observe reading while cranking. If I remember, 10 volts under fill load is it, but it's been a number of years since I was punching time clocks. And, it varies with A/H capabilities of said battery.
If the vehicle starts, run it for a few minutes to get a charging system surface charge back onto the battery, shut down, turn headlamps on and re-start, observing meter reading.

 

[rkep01]

Kevin - You might want to have a look at this. https://www.harborfreight.com/100-amp-6-volt-12-volt-battery-load-tester-90636.html I have one and use it anytime I suspect the battery of not holding a charge. Even a bad battery will read 12V when tested with a voltmeter. That's because the VM isn't putting any load on the battery. The load tester will tell you the condition of the battery, without any doubt, right away, and cheaply enough. I've gotten much use from mine. Best $25 i've ever spent. (Well on automotive stuff, anyway.)

 

[Sarastro]

Any reasonable set of cables should be fine. I don't know why the guy suggested improved cables when the problem was a discharged battery. Maybe he's accustomed to replacing the engine when the car's out of gas.

 

[The_architect]

Regardless of whether the battery is charged, if the solenoid to starter cable "is original" as Kevin states that it is, it should be replaced. I am going to make the supposition that if Rut is a tractor owner, as he states, he is likely used to keeping 6-volt systems running, and in that case the difference between a 4-gauge cable and a 0-gauge is significant. No harm would be done if Kevin's cables were beefier, I'm sure.

 

[ichthos]

I am not ignoring other comments, which I will follow through on tonight or tomorrow, but what gauge is stock for the positive battery to the solenoid and the wire from the solenoid to starter? The only reason I still used the wire form the solenoid to the starter is that there was no visible corrosion. As long as I am going to replace it, I might as well upgrade this wire. What gauge would be resonable?
Kevin

 

[jlaird]

Miss Agatha uses cables from a local parts store. Same size as any other US vehicle. Also use the felt non corrosive things under each battery terminal.

Battery to ground, battery to solenoid, solenoid and to starter. Might spend $15.

 

[Sarastro]

Regardless of whether the battery is charged, if the solenoid to starter cable "is original" as Kevin states that it is, it should be replaced. I am going to make the supposition that if Rut is a tractor owner, as he states, he is likely used to keeping 6-volt systems running, and in that case the difference between a 4-gauge cable and a 0-gauge is significant. No harm would be done if Kevin's cables were beefier, I'm sure.

Sorry if I was unclear--I meant the guy at the shop where Kevin took it, who said that the cable should be "upgraded."

 

[The_architect]

Thank you for the clarification Steve. I know they are not <span style="font-style: italic">necessary</span>, but who knows, perhaps on that bitter cold night when your battery is a bit undercharged or your starter is a little weak a little less resistance in these cables would make a difference. Maybe not so much in Southern California or in Florida.

I believe that four gauge cables are stock, but you can have them made in 2, 1, 0, whatever you want. Or look at Tractor Supply Company, they usually have heavier cables.

Those who think not, I see where you're coming from. Lots of people like fat tires, coil-overs, overbored engines too. I don't see the need--but its your car. Have fun with it!

Charlie

 

[Pythias]

The easiest way to test to see if the battery held a charge is to hit the horn. If it honks full blast, the battery is good. If it won't honk the horn--FULL LOUD-- it may not turn the starter. No other testers required. If it does honk the horn, the problem is in the wire connections or the starter itself. Wires don't go bad with time, but the connections can.