Bugeye front suspension

[TulsaFred]

I read the workshop manual on rebuilding the front suspension. My eyes glazed over halfway through, it's pretty difficult to follow. Several special tools are referenced. The way things are put together, especially the lower kingpin bushing, is poorly described.
I have the coil springs out, and I'm thinking of dismantling the remainder of the front suspension and renewing renewables, but maybe it's not a job for a home mechanic.
Anyone have experience and or thoughts on this?

Fred

 

[JPSmit]

Front suspensions are easy - if you are replacing the king pins, you will need to get the bushings reamed and inserted - that is the only non diy part of the project.

 

[nomad]

Getting the bottom fulcrum pin out of the king pin is likely to be a PITA. Often you will end up replacing A arm, king pin, and rebushing the swivel axle. Be prepared if there is much play there. Folks here can help you thru it if you need to tackle it.

Kurt.

 

[lbcfan]

For what it's worth I just did mine.

I bought a NOS kingpin set on Ebay. Note that the NOS has cork rings that actually fit. I bought a modern cork set and the rings did not fit- especially the one at the bottom of the kingpin. The new one was not chamfered.

I lucked out in that I had greased the heck out of the car over the years and I avoided the horrors of rusted lower fulcrum pins- mine unscrewed fairly easily and the threaded A-arm bushings were fine. I understand that many pins are rusted into the A-arm's threaded bushings. If so you need to have the arms rebuilt, or purchase new. There are a couple of places to send the arms to be re-bushed. I did unfortunately find that one arm was actually bent and had to be replaced. I don't remember hitting anything that hard... note that there is some looseness between the pin and thread until you add grease. Seems normal.

My kingpin bushings were perfect and did not need replacement.The kingpin had corroded. If your bushings need replacement there are a couple of mail-in places that will do the rebuild. The reamer is a special two diameter item. A local club may have one if you want to do it or have a local shop work on it.

I actually had to hone the bushings a little to fit the new kingpins- don't know why. I think that there is supposed to be .002" clearance, but I'm terrible at measuring the inside diameter of anything with my $10 caliper, so I just honed until the pin could be inserted by hand, but I still felt some resistance to turning.

I had some play in the horizontal plane at the bottom of the kingpin when I started- all gone now.

In short- if I can do it anyone can. If you need the name of the shop(s) for the bushing work let me know.If you need the shops the cost for all of the work and the kingpin set is about $4-500. I got away for the cost of the set.

Michael

 

[PeterC]

Fred, the original Bugeye front suspension would be with DRUM brakes. Many folks have changed to DISC brakes on their Bugeyes. Besides the brake differences, the kingpins and stub axles are different sizes. There is no single tool reamer for the drum brake set-up as there is for the disc.

If you've ever considered changing to disc brakes, this would be added incentive.

I suggest identifying exactly the problem area(s) that you currently have, as there may be an easier or cheaper way to go rather than the whole deal.

I can assist as can others in this forum.

Peter C

 

[lbcfan]

Its funny- in doing some early reading I kept seeing references to reaming the bushings- could have been for the disc brake set-up.

I just checked the BMC workshop manual for the bugeye (drum brakes) and it talks about broaching (expanding) the bushings- not reaming.

Big difference...

Michael

 

[PeterC]

You were fortunate that you had NOS parts. The current crop require reaming after fitment.

Peter

 

[TulsaFred]

Thanks guys,
at this point I don't notice any real play or looseness, the suspension just looks pretty cruddy. Im thinking of taking it off as a unit to clean it up and paint it.
There is some rust in the part of the chassis that projects down into the top of the coil spring and holds the bump stop. When I pulled the bump stop out I could vacuum a ton of rust flakes out of the hole in that chassis projection. The hole itself is not irregular due to the rot. It seems localized just to that area, the structural part seems solid.

If I take off the front suspension as a unit, I gather I should disconnect at the lower inner A arm bushings/pins, and then at the connection between the lever shock arm and the trunnion?

Can I bead blast the assembly or will this force blast material into bushings and joints?

Fred

 

[TulsaFred]

Here are a couple pics of my suspension, note that the PO had done some partial restoration, the tie rod end looks fairly new. The brakes are original drum also rebuilt several years ago but hardly used.

Also note the rust described above.

Fred

 

[nomad]

Bottom A arm with the sway bar mounting holes is not stock so may have been rebuilt with a later a arm or perhaps just holes drilled. If there are holes on the back of the A arm similiar to the front sway bar mounting holes then they are probalby later A arms and suspention has been rebuilt at some time if not then I would say the holes to mount the sway bar were drilled in the original A arms. If you attempt to blast the assembly I don't think you can keep the grit out of places it should'nt be. Maybe if you tape over all the places grit should'nt be.

Kurt.

 

[TulsaFred]

Thanks Kurt, I'll check the other side of the A arm for holes.

I was thinking the same thing about keeping grit out with tape or other material.

Can anyone educate me on the joint at the outer A arm and Kingpin connection?
It is described as having a "threaded" bushing, and I've never heard of this. I also am unsure how to disconnect, it looks like a tiny nut on one side and no bolt or nut on the other.
How is this disassembled and how is it rebuilt?

Fred

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Fred,

What you are talking about is a locking nut. This wedge shaped pin locks a flat side against a similiar flat on the side of the fulcrum pin. As the front suspension goes up and down, the fulcrum pin now solidly connected to the swivel pin rotates on the metal threaded bushings at the end of the A-Arm. That's why things wear out. Here's what I did to take it apart:
1) If you are lucky you will be able to unbolt wishbone and hammer out the bolts that attach the wishbone to the body of the car. Lots of lube in advance helps. If as I found out it's totally rusted together with bushings a Sawzall is your friend. Cut carefully and you can have apart in minutes. There is room in there for a blade and you can cut out without hurting the suspension mountings or the wishbone. New bushings and bolts and nuts are part of a MOSS Major suspension kit.
2)Prior to cutting it apart, check the swivel pin for movement front to back. The pin should be free to rotate on the same axis as the fulcrum pin but there should be no front to back movement. Bugsy's front suspension was so bad I could move close to 20 degrees off of vertical. Hence the tendency to clunk and shake when hitting a sewer lid but also to wander all over the road at speed. It it moves off of vertical chances are fulcrum pin is worn out.
4) Carefully examine the A Arm for cracks and tears around the moutng holes for the metal bushings. I spent an entire afternoon removing a set of A Arms from a Spridget so I could have a set to rebuild only to find both were cracked and unusale. If there are cracks or torn metal you need to buy new.
5)Put the Wishbone on the bench and in a vise. Take and unbolt the locking pin and if you are lucky you will be able to drive out, more likely it will be totally rusted in place. If that is the case again a Sawzall or cutting wheel in a right angle grinder is your friend. You can cut through the swivel pin and fulcrum pin and pull them out. At this point the rest of the fucrum pin can be screwed out. These parts again are part of a MOSS Major suspension kit.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

6) If metal bushings are still good and you can tell by carefully working in the new fulcrum pin in and out to colean out the threads. Lots of lube. If the fulcrum pin does not turn in freely or if it feels loose it's time for new threaded bushings/inserts. Bushings are available from Winner's Circle or Apple Hydraulics. They are brazed in place and this is a really tricky alignment thing as both sides need to be exactly aligned when the insterts are brazed in place. I gave up trying to do this myself and sent both A Arms off to Apple Hydraulics. They came back 5 days later wth new inserts that fit properly brazed in place, A-arms derusted and painted. Cost with metal bushings about $200.00
7) You are now ready for reassembly. Brass Bushings on the Swivel Axel however will still need to be reamed and fit to the swivel pin. Peter C at World Wide Imports will ream and size the bushings and fit to the swivel pin. I sent to Swing Axle, Swivel pin, and all of the rest of the piece parts from the Major Suspension Kit to Peter C. His guys reamed the bushings and set them all up for clearances so all I needed to do was bolt the assemply to the wishbone and reassemble. Cost about $50 plus postage and turned around and going back to me the same day.

The end result. No more wandering down the expressway with a white knuckle grib on the steering wheel doing constant steering corrections. Sewer lids and pot holes don't cause the steering wheel to jump out of my hand and everything is absolutely tight like the car is on rails. Whle you've got the car apart consider replacing both front and rear shocks with a set from Peter C. His are the absolute best,Balljoints as well as you've got it all apart.

To do it right a front end rebuild is the most expensive part of a restoration after an engine rebuild. Do it right and the smiles on your face will go on and on everytime you get behind the wheel for years to come.

 

[PeterC]

Fred, Yours may not be worn. After you disconnect the trunion from the shock, try to move the trunion and kingpin fore and aft (not inboard and outboard). If there is wear in the lower threaded trunion, it will show at this test. Do it while the kingpin is perpendicular to the a-frame. If you don'
t feel any wear, then leave it alone. Attempting to take every thing apart to clean can be frustrating and expensive. I suggest you take the assembly to the local car wash, and for 2 bucks do the engine wash, then hot rinse. It'll be nearly clean enough to paint. Only bead blast if you're doing a complete rebuild, as the grit gets everywhere.

Peter

 

[TulsaFred]

Thanks JIm and Peter.

The small nut at the connection of the a arm to the lower kingpin has a grease fitting on it. The other side of the pin is simply flat and flush with no nut or bolt.
So I gather I take off this nut with grease fitting, then drive out the pin?
What is threaded in the "threaded bushing"?

I have minimal for and aft play in the kingpin (though did not disconnect the lever shock arm from the top yet). I can feel the play and see it but it is probably no more that a 16th of an inch or maybe a 32nd. Seems like the play is in the upper and lower kingpin bushings, but your advice is that this type of fore/aft play indicates threaded bushing wear at the bottom of the kingpin.

Peter, does your shop do a full rebuild?
In other words, if I disconnect the a arm at the connection to the chassis (inner fulcrum pins), disconnect the lever shock from the top of the kingpin/trunnion, and disconnect the brake hose, it looks like the entire assembly could be removed (A arm, kingpin, trunion, swivel axle/spindle, brake back plate). Could I send the whole assembly and have new bushings, kingpins, etc done?

thanks
Fred

 

[jlaird]

The pin you want to knock out is screwed in from the front. The grease fitting at the rear is only a cover really.

Please take a look at a manual or a Moss catalog for the pic before you do anything.

 

[TulsaFred]

Thanks Jack,

I looked at the shop manual, but it isn't clear what needs to be done.
On the Moss site the exploded view shows "grease fitting" and "plug" on the forward side (what I described as a small nut, since it is hexagonal and threaded). Then the "fulcrum pin" which looks like it has threads on both ends. Then on the other side a "blanking plug".
So presumably the grease fitting and threaded plug are removed, then there is some way the fulcrum pin is screwed out/in rather than press fit. Does it have a slot for a screwdriver to remove? Can't imagine that is the way. That fulcrum pin is likely stuck like concrete given the force it carries.

I guess I'll just need to start dismantling and maybe it'll be obvious.

Fred

 

[TulsaFred]

Jim
I reread your post, but I'm still confused as to how the outer A arm fulcrum pin is fitted. Does it thread in place or is it driven in and out?

Fred

 

[BillW103]

The small nut comes off the tapered cotter pin drives out then you unscrew the swivel pin.(it very seldom goes that easy)
Swivel pin is a big comon screw driver.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Yep take off the grease fitting, there is a hex fitting under all of the grease and remove. If the wedge pin( #19) is driven out, the fulcrum pin will now unscrew. Find the biggest screwdriver in your toolbox. There is a flat side on the fulcrum pin that mates up with the flat side of the wedge pin. This locks the fulcrum pin to the swivel pin (# 4). As the suspension goes up and down the A frame moves up and down all supported by the fulcrum pin which rotates in the threaded metal bushings. That's why the fulcrum pin wears out. Softer material than the metal bushings.

If you are lucky, and the threads are still good on the metal bushings the removal of the wedge pin will allow you to unscrew the fulcrum pin.