BOOM!!!

[Mio]

I was happily driving along about 15 mph (water temp: 190; oil: 80psi) when I heard an extremely loud BOOM! Without question the loudest noise I have ever heard produced by an automobile. The noise was followed by a metallic grinding noise that seemed to be emitting by the drive train. However, the engine died at the same time so I am not making any assumptions as to the cause. Suffice it to say, however, that something definitely broke and did so in a rather inauspicious fashion.

I pushed it home and put it up on jack stands (which, by the way, I'm getting very good at doing). Since I had taken a turn right before this event transpired I thought perhaps I had snapped an axle but they both look good. I then attempted to start the engine (in neutral and then in neutral with the clutch pushed in) and, while it will turn over, it will not start. I then drained the oil but evidenced no indication of metal pieces. I removed the valve cover and examined the plugs and everything looks fine. I then pulled the starter and am able to turn the flywheel. To the extent to which I could use a mirror to examine the flywheel, everything looked fine. I then drained the transmission oil (it has the Rivergate Datsun 210 conversion) and it, too, looks fine. However, I noticed that the propeller shaft will not turn. I can put the car in gear and spin the rear wheels easily enough (it has a recently rebuilt 3.9 differential with the Phantom Grip LSD) but the propeller shaft does not turn. Perhaps I snapped a timing belt and that is why the engine will turn over but not start but I'm guessing that the transmission suffered a catastrophic (or entertaining, depending on one's perspective) failure but would appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Take the valve cover off and see if the valves are operating properly when you crank the engine. It could be a broken timing chain.

 

[Bayless]

If you turn one wheel while both are off the ground, having a LSD, you would expect the propeller shaft (drive shaft) to turn whereas without the LSD, the other wheel simply turns in the opposite direction. If this is the case then I would pretty much bet the problem in in the differential rather than the tranny. Since you were able to push if home,apparently without noticing any suspicious sounds and such, that also suggests that the tranny is not the cause. Also, assuming you still have a BMC A Series engine in it, it has a timing chain instead of a belt. That's unlikely to actually break but if it does, you probably do some serious damage.

 

[texas_bugeye]

Sounds like it could be a blowen head gasket Pull the plugs, stick your thumb over 1 cylinder plug hole and turn it over.
move thumb to 2-3-4 and repeat. Check for compression on each cylinder.
Could be a blown head gasket. It's sort of like bird flu and swine flu. It's going around I just blew mine and a freind in a club just blew the head gasket in his XKE. if it blew between the cylinders it wont leak no oil in the tail pipe no nothing Mine would start but idled at about 500 RPM and the carb for 3-4 if you looked down the throat when it was running the dashpot would dance up and down and suck and blow.
Hope you find it nothing to serious if it is a gasket its not a big deal.
Just get a PAYNE.

 

[Mio]

It could be a broken timing chain.

That's certainly leading my list of culprits given the extremely loud noise and metallic sound immediately after, at which point the engine died.

Mike

 

[Mio]

If you turn one wheel while both are off the ground, having a LSD, you would expect the propeller shaft (drive shaft) to turn whereas without the LSD, the other wheel simply turns in the opposite direction.

Correct, one would expect the propeller shaft to turn and yet it does not. Indeed, I can't get it to turn at all even by grabbing on to it. I'll try to pull the differential later today.

Mike

 

[Mio]

Sounds like it could be a blowen head gasket

Hi Chris,
Fair point but would a blown head gasket lead to a metallic grinding noise followed by complete engine failure? I blew a head gasket in an old Saab (with 223,000 miles on it) years ago and yet was able to limp home. Whatever occurred with my Bugeye generated an extremely loud noise (right up there with being too close to a few M-80s going off simulataneously).

Thanks for the Payne recommendation.

Mike

 

[mrsprite]

You say the axles look good.....did you actually remove them to inspect them? I am fairly confident that your problem lies with the axles and/or the differential. Did it make any funny noises when you were pushing it? You can usually hear the axle shaft flopping around inside the tube when an axle breaks.....believe me, I have broken 4 or 5 axles over the past 3 years, I know!

Only other thing it could be is busted spider gears inside the diff., but I am betting on a bad axle.


*EDIT*

Hmmmm.....you might want to remove the driveshaft from the diff and see if you can get it to spin with the other end in the transmission. That would tell you if your issue is with the transmission. I can't honestly remember if the driveshaft moved or not when I busted those axles or when I broke the spider gears.

With the driveshaft out of the diff, you can then try turning it by hand as well. That will reveal where the problem is. I still think it is in the rear, but maybe you broke a diff or an axle as a result of the trnsmission locking up, who knows?

 

[texas_bugeye]

(in neutral and then in neutral with the clutch pushed in) and, while it will turn over, it will not start.

That statement is what leads me to an eginge failure A drive line failure would have no affect on the engine runnig unless the drive line serously locked up and twisted something in the engine.

 

[jessebogan]

WHOA whoa whoa!!!. Hold on here. How about some diagnosis before rippin' the car apart. OK, the engine cranks. Does it sound normal? Cranking speed like it was last time? OP on the guage when cranking?
Next, check for spark at the coil wire. If yes, then check at a plug. If no spark, then fix that.
Does it have fuel? If yes (and spark too), then maybe a compression check is in order.
You pushed it home? was it hard to move? Any noises? Try turning the DS with a pair of channelocks. Try in both directions.
Although in reality any part can fail at any moment, most of the time there is some sort of warning before a major part just lets go. I guess my point is to just go after the broken part in a methodical way instead of jumping to conclusions.

 

[DarwinT]

If your timing chain broke, it should turn over faster than normal since you aren't getting normal compression.

 

[texas_bugeye]

Sounds like it could be a blowen head gasket

Hi Chris,
Fair point but would a blown head gasket lead to a metallic grinding noise followed by complete engine failure? I blew a head gasket in an old Saab (with 223,000 miles on it) years ago and yet was able to limp home. Whatever occurred with my Bugeye generated an extremely loud noise (right up there with being too close to a few M-80s going off simulataneously).

Thanks for the Payne recommendation.

Mike

When the cortina's blew it was loud as #$# but total engine fail no. Geez I hope its not the cam chain but you would be able to peek in th oil cap to see if things are still turning as well as pop the dizzy cap. and see the rotor.Hoping for the best as for out the back side not familar with the setup you have.

 

[Mio]

You say the axles look good.....did you actually remove them to inspect them? I am fairly confident that your problem lies with the axles and/or the differential.

Those of you who thought it was the differential were correct. I pulled the differential and could definitely see where the spider gears had blown apart. The propeller shaft moved freely once it was free of the differential.

What was going on with my engine? It would appear that my 14 month old Optima Red Top battery is failing to hold a charge, hence the fact that the engine would turn over but wouldn't start. (What I could discern from removing the valve cover looked entirely normal.) I dropped in another battery and it fired right up. Strange how I had two (seemingly) unrelated issues arise concurrently.

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback.

Mike

 

[Mio]

How about some diagnosis before rippin' the car apart....I guess my point is to just go after the broken part in a methodical way instead of jumping to conclusions.

Hi Jesse,
Thank you for your guidance. For what it's worth, I do not have an extensive background working on these cars. Indeed, I would argue that I am somewhat of a neophyte in the mechanical arena. That said, I do not feel that I was haphazardly and arbitrarily "rippin' the car apart" but attempting to diagnose the situation based on my limited knowledge in this domain. Moreover, I could have simply punted and given AAA a call and had the car taken to a local British auto shop but that would have deprived me of a valuable learning experience.

Thanks again to everyone for contributing to this post.

Regards,
Mike

 

[mrsprite]

I'm glad you found the problem and that it's a pretty cheap and easy fix. I busted the spider gears a few years ago and then several axles after that (I got very good at removing differentials!), so I could almost tell it was something rear end related just by your explanation. My BE made a loud banging noise when the spiders distentegrated too.

I also believe the best way to get to know your old British car (or any car for that matter) is to get your hands dirty and start poking and prodding things until you find something. I probably wouldn't have drained any fluids, but that sort of thing needs to be done semi-regularly anyway, so now you're ahead of the game as far as maintenance goes.

Anyway congrats on finding the problem and I hope you get your Bugeye back on the road soon.

 

[tweety]

Lot;s of inexpensive pumpkins on Ebay.

I know relatively little about cars, but I pretty much had is pegged as the dif from your posting. My '79 did the same thing. It went from fine to dead just like that, not a big boom though.

Gremlins travel in packs. A funky pumpkin and a dead battery are a perfect example of what I like to call "failure aggregation" It really makes troubleshooting fun!

 

[texas_bugeye]

Wow glad it was just the rear end pretty wierd coincidence that non related problem ocurred at the same time.

 

[Mio]

A funky pumpkin and a dead battery are a perfect example of what I like to call "failure aggregation" It really makes troubleshooting fun!

"Failure aggregation" is certainly an appropriate term and highlighted the challenge associated with getting at the core of the issue. This was only exacerbated by the deafening BOOM!! which biased me into thinking that the problem was very serious and related to the engine (which died immediately after the differential grenaded). Fortunately, I have a spare differential on hand and will be installing it today. The Optima Red Top will going to a local distributor on Monday for a recharge or replacement.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Trevor Jessie]

My father ditched his optima battery after it caused all sorts of problems with his computer and it had poor cranking performance. I do not know if he was using the proper maintenance charger or not.

 

[Bayless]

Glad to hear it was an easy find and apparently a pretty painless fix.