article on oils

[Taz]

Here is an interesting article on oils and engine break in.
https://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

Taz

 

[SilentUnicorn]

wow! that aint good. Especially this paragraph from the above article


[ QUOTE ]
For the cars that use “engine oil” in their gearboxes this may even pose a problem as these additives that have been removed could be very critical in gear wear. We will be using oil specifically formulated for Manual Gearboxes with Brass Synchronizers. The only oils we are aware of that fit the criteria are from General Motors and Redline.


[/ QUOTE ]




mark

 

[jlaird]

Guess we go to Redline. Wonder where we can get that?

 

[Gearhead]

We need to get this out to everyone ASAP. Mark

 

[Baz]

I've searched the major auto parts stores on-line, and am coming up blank on 'redline oils'.
However, the company website has dealer locator that came up with all of them.....

 

[jlaird]

Well, I know where to get it at home now.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I break all my engines in on Rotella 15/40.

I would not use any snythetic oil for engine break in, this stuff is too slick and can cause your rings to not seat, been there done that. As for oil in the gear box, you could use Rotella or Moblie one synthedtic, but I do not suggest any synthetic gear lube, our stock gearboxes are build with clearence too close for heavy gear lubes and these heavy oil can cause over heating and damage, some folks have ran Red Line MTL sucessfully, but I do not recommend it.

Ok with that said, I do believe what the oil reports say, but I also think there is a little of the ole 'passing the buck" going on here as well, meaning maybe we have more than one problem going on here with lifters and cam lobe wear. Alot of cam regrinders are are NOT hardening the reground cams, Reed Cams told me hardening of flat tappet cam was not needed, that's 100% BS! It is vitally important to match lifter and cam hardnesses, in other words you buy a Billet cam that specs at near 60 Rockwell C and then mate it with a cheap set of lifter tha spec about 48-52, you just begging for a failure. We have been running Comptune reground cams for years that are nitrited after being reground and paired with quality lifter that spec 56 Rockwell C or harder we had great sucess, but most cam grinder just are not doing this because of added expense and less profit. I did a lifter test a few years back and tested stock lifters, chilled iron lifters and Mini Spares lightened lifters and found that chilled iron lifter and the Mini Spares lifters spec at 56-57, perfect for a hardened regrind or a billet cam, but the stock lifter were in the low 50s, too soft. Factory cams were hardend and when these companies regrind them and do not harden then they are less tha they were from the factory, msot hardening like nitriting only penatrate the stell about .030". I've not Rockwell C tested an reground, unhardened cam lobe but I bet it would check in the 40s at best, now pair that with a cheap lifter in the low 50s and you get the picture, failure could be a problem. I think the safest bet for a backyard builder is go to well known source for lifters and cams, I would recommend David Anton at APT and go with his billet or nitrited regrounds and his APT lifters, not cheap, but cheaper than doing it twice.

 

[Gearhead]

Hap
You mentioned you use Rotella 15/40 for break-in how about for regular use everyday do you use anything different for race use,how about in the trans I've been using Valvoline Max life 15/40 heard pros/cons on that oil? Mark

 

[Taz]

A reply posted on the healey board from Castrol In regards to issues related to flat tappet cams in OLDER performance
engines typically known as MUSCLE CARS (NOT modern performance vehicles), we
can recommend the following Castrol Products ...

* GTX 20W-50 (SL,SM)
* Castrol GTX Diesel 15W-40 (CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,CF,SL)
* Castrol GTX High Mileage 20W-50 (SL,SM)
* Castrol HD 30 (SL,SM)
* Castrol HD 40 (SL,SM)
* Castrol Syntec Blend Truck 15W-40 (CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,CF,SL)(Semi-synthetic)
* Castrol Tection Extra 15W-40 (CI4Plus, CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,SL)
* Castrol Hypuron S 15W-40 (CI4Plus,CH4,CG4,SL)(Semi-synthetic)
y board

 

[Deleted member 3577]

What is (SL,SM)?

And why not Redline MTL for the gearbox?
(I really like the way it shifts)

I don't, however, like the shockproof oils on account of the "little balls" gumming up the oil pump.

Sure I like Redline for engine oil except I can't keep it in front of the scroll "seal".

 

[Sarastro]

I hate to be the resident curmudgeon, but I'd like to caution people to take this article with a large grain of salt. I'd like to hear some comments on it from a knowledgeable mechanical engineer, who works in the field of lubricants. Not someone who got an idea, called people right and left, and finally assures us they all agree with him. He may well be right, I don't know; I'm an electrogeek, not a mechanical one. But I've been around enough to be skeptical of hysterical-sounding articles by people who are absolutely sure they've discovered something that will be a disaster to all of us. Anyone here have that kind of expertise? If so, PLEASE comment.

 

[philknight]

I went on a quest to find Castrol 90 weight gl4 gear oil a while back. I found that in Europe, Castrol has a line they call "Classic" which is not carried by Castrol North America. I sent emails to the different Castrol entities asking why and only got a reply from England giving me a vender in New England that imported some of the classic line. Unfortunately 90w gear oil wasn't one of the products they imported. I still don't understand why Castrol North America doesn't sell this line. Must be incompetent ex Leland executives running Castrol NA. They could sure be taking some of my money if it was sold here. Phil

 

[jlaird]

Been thinking about this all day. Think I am going to stick with Castrol 20W 50W all the way but for run in which will be 30W unless Hap tells me something different.

 

[Baz]

If our cars have been 'OK' for 30 - 40 years with what we've always been putting in it, then fine. Synchro wear after that kind of time period is almost to be expected.

 

[Taz]

I'm not say any of this information is good or bad. Just food for though. I know that Harley recommends using a oil formulated for diesel engines if you are not using there oil or in a emergency. But they are air-cooled of course.

Taz

 

[DrEntropy]

[ QUOTE ]
What is (SL,SM)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't recall if it was SMTP or SAE but I'm recalling "Service; Light" and "Service; Medium" for those designations.

Anyone else?

 

[ChrisS]

S defines that it is for a gasoline engine (C would be diesel for reference). The next letter is essentially the revision of the standard. SJ is for 2001 and older gasoline engines and SL is for 2004 and older engines. They have omitted SI and SK from the sequence.

SM Current For all automotive engines presently in use. Introduced November 30, 2004. SM oils are designed to provide improved oxidation resistence, improved deposit protection, better wear protection, and better low-temperature performance over the life of the oil. Some

SM oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as Energy Conserving.

SL Current For 2004 and older automotive engines.

SJ Current For 2001 and older automotive engines.

SH Obsolete For 1996 and older engines. Valid when preceded by current C categories.

SG Obsolete For 1993 and older engines.

SF Obsolete For 1988 and older engines.

SE Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1979.

SD Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1971. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

SC Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1967. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

SB Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1963. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

SA Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1930. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

 

[Westfield_XI]

APT told me to use Rotella for break-in and for regular usage too.

 

[DrEntropy]

THANK YOU, Chris!!!

Was it SMTP, SAE or "other"?

 

[jlaird]

Wow, so much to know. Thanks Chris. That needs to be in Tech data.