3000 Alloy block

[BUNDYRUM]

I'm starting this thread because I don't like hijacking another.

The DMD Alloy block weighs 85 lbs bare. That is with no studs, liners but with the bores rough machined.

The latest version of the DMD cylinder head weighs 42 lbs with valves, springs and studs installed.

I have no idea what it would cost to ship one over here as I haven't looked into it, maybe someone else has. It MAY be possible to go online and search shipping companies and get an estimate.

Best regards,

bundyrum.

 

[Randy Forbes]

That'd sure be a sweet engine to have in my/your car, but just way out of my league, cost-wise.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't something like that take $15-20k to build? This is assuming that you're doing your own assembly, I just mean for the parts cost and required machining.

Might as well go big; can't the bore & stroke be taken to about 4.0 litres (244 c.i.)? Now compare that to the weight of an Austin 4.0, as used in the VdP Princess or Jensen 541!

 

[Cottontop]

One thing to keep in mind is that removing a large amount of weight from the front end will change the weight and balance of the whole car.

MY engine is about 70 pounds lighter than the Healey 6 and even that minimal weight loss affects how the springs, shocks, and steering react to the road.

Be sure to put another $3K -$5K in the budget to redo the whole suspension system.

Tim

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello Randy Forbes,

I am not here to defend the Alloy block issue. My interest in it is because I know the guys who did it and watched them progress from their own initial start up to where it ended for them in 2008. Whatever happens with the Alloy block from then on doesn't change the fact that they went out on a limb and did this project when a whole lot of others said it couldn't be done or just put them down for taking the initiative and getting it started and seeing it through.

Anyone who wants to leave negative feedback look in the mirror as you are saying it out loud. Yes I understand it may not be everyone's cup of tea (so as to speak) but that's the beauty of life we're not all the same (thank god or someone).

Yes this is an expensive project, somewhat higher than the $15-$20K you suggested. I'm not getting into the $$ amounts here just the facts of it all.

As I said the block saves 100lbs, I didn't weigh a cylinder head so don't know what that is. There are 2 types of conrods available depending on what bore size you use and neither did I weigh those. I would suspect the cylinder head is not a great amount lighter.Yes it will be some but there is more material in the latest version (there were 3)so it may not be a lot. also the material is a lot more dense than other alloy Healey heads.

The VdP Princess 1964-68 actually had a Rolls-Royce engine of 3909cc which is what the Jensen 541 used.

The earlier 1950's Princess's engine had the same bore and stroke as the A90/BN1/2 Healey which gave it 3990cc. The 6 cylinder engine was in production before the 4 cylinder engine.

Keep those posts coming there are those of us that like what you have to say.

As far as I'm concerned the fact that there is less mass in the front makes it even more an interesting project as it gives you something to think about to come up with a solution to the now excessively stiff suspension etc etc.

Best regards to all, (yes funny enough even you),

bundyrum.

 

[Genos2]

Cottontop,drivers can vary in weight by 75-100 lbs easily, why one would have to spend 4-5k$ to redo or modify suspension is a bit of a reeacchhh to me,IMHO. Anything that can reduce weight& get her balance closer to 50/50 would have to improve handling & performance(weight loss).I aluminum blocks were available locally, I'd buy one in a heart-beat. That plus an alloy head, would be great fun to build.Plus my '53 BN1 had a Corvette engine in her when I first bought her,other than traction bars(similar to radius rods)she went very fast didn't stop so well! cheers Genos2

 

[Barryp]

As I said the block saves 100lbs, I didn't weigh a cylinder head so don't know what that is. bundyrum. [/quote]


Hi Guys,

An iron head with valves, and .130" shave wheighs 84lbs. Weighed it prior to building a box to ship to my head guy couple weeks ago.


Barry

 

[Randy Forbes]

I don't know where you got the impression I was giving you negative feedback, as I wasn't. I too applaud what they've done.

I'll refrain from answering any future posts you may be involved in, as I don't want to hurt your feelings; I didn't know you were that sensitive.

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello Randy Forbes,

I don't know if you're referring to me but the comment wasn't meant for you in the first place. I replied to Tim before reading the latest on here and should have included you in the reply. What was a reference to you was the sentence that started with "Keep those posts......." I hope this sums it all up from me. Certainly no offense meant to you mate.

Hello BarryP,

Thanks for the info on the cylinder head weight. I have an unused original iron head but it's not close to where I can get to it.

Best regards,

bundyrum.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Hello Randy Forbes,

I don't know if you're referring to me but the comment wasn't meant for you in the first place. I replied to Tim before reading the latest on here and should have included you in the reply. What was a reference to you was the sentence that started with "Keep those posts......." I hope this sums it all up from me. Certainly no offense meant to you mate.

Hello BarryP,

Thanks for the info on the cylinder head weight. I have an unused original iron head but it's not close to where I can get to it.

Best regards,

bundyrum.

See, now this is why I like talking to people in front of me; no confusion when you can look into their eyes :wink:

BTW, I was referring to the 1956 Jensen 541R so it had the big Austin lump in it. Also the first (?) production car with 4-wheel disc brakes. The tires were 4" wide, so it would fishtail standing still

 

[AJAX50]

The VP with the 3993 Austin engine was a coach built limo (by Vanden Plas), first produce in 1952. The Rolls Royce powered Vanden Plas Princess R was based on the Austin 110 Westminster which was also availabe with the Healey 3 litre engine. The RR engine was quite unusual, all alloy, overhead inlet and side exhaust valves. According to a friend of mine who has one, it revs really smoothly.

 

[anthony7777]

randy, talk to me!-talk to me!...

 

[Randy Forbes]

randy, talk to me!-talk to me!...

You're making me dizzy... :wink:

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello Randy Forbes,

I've just gone back and read what I said on page 1 and see where I made a mistake.

Where I said the Jensen 541 and the VdP Princess of 1964-68 had the same engine is obviously not correct. I was trying to get too much information down and didn't go back and proof read it myself. Yes I know it was 02:25 AM but I'm not using that as an excuse.

Getting back to the Alloy block. The 3.8 litre version has a bore of 3.779" (96mm)together with the original stroke of 3.500" (88.9mm) gives 235.5 cu ins (3861cc). There are ways to get this even larger still because of the wall thickness of the cylinders. In the end it still comes down to money.

Hello AJAX50,

That RR engine has a 7 main bearing crank which helps it to rev smoother that a 4 main bearing one.

Best regards,

bundyrum.

 

[pan]

I have couple of comments to add to this thread:
I had the pleasure of riding in the Austin-Healey 4000 in 1977, and it was indeed smooth. But then so is any Healey Six to a "dyed in the wool" 100 bloke like myself! The 4000 that was in Melbourne had a Jaguar manual transmission.

The Austin 4 Litre six that was used in the Princess and the Jensen was in some models fitted with a cylinder head that had individual ports located on the opposite side of the head, like a 100S. I find that interesting because all the Healey books refer to the 100S cylinder head layout as being especially developed for the Austin-Healey. The question is: which came first?

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello pan,

Do you have more to tell on the Austin 4 litre six that had ports on both sides of the cylinder head. I have never heard of that, but that's nothing new.

The 4000 you mentioned was the only one of three produced to have manual transmission. I also remember that car in 1977.

Best regards,

bundyrum.

 

[dougie]

On the subject of the alloy block weight and chassis/suspension set-up. Some of you might remember Jeff Johnk had the full DWD alloy block/head/triple-SU manifold for the 2005 Healey Challenge. He wasn't considered a legal competitor with the rest of the US and Australian cars but he finished in the top of the pack in most of the events. The chassis modifications were pretty simple to accommodate the lighter motor.

There's a back issue of Classic Motorsports Magazine were my favorite author and self-confessed "ride mooch" Burt Levy compares the top prepared and preforming full race Australian Healey with Jeff's DWD engined car. The comparison also takes into account the differences in tires and brakes used between the 2 teams. Interesting read, I'm on vacation now or I would find the copy and given more detail on Burt's overall opinion of both

Dougie

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello dougie,

That would be interesting to read, at least for me that is.

As far as chassis modifications go it would be about softer spring rates and sway bar and take it from there.

Jeff s' engine was the stock capacity (2912cc), at least that's what he told me.

Best regards,

bundyrum.

 

[pan]

Bundyrum,
I didn't mean that that Austin engine had ports on both sides of the cylinder head What I meant was that it was like a 100S, in that the inlet and exhaust ports were on the opposite (right-hand) side to the "normal" motor. The 100S with inlet ports on both sides of the head was another development altogether!

 

[BUNDYRUM]

Hello pan,

I understand what your saying now, yes sometimes it takes a while.

I still wasn't aware that some of the Austin 4 litre engines had the ports on the opposite side of the head like a 100/S.

Yes I know about the 100/S head that has inlet ports on both sides.

Best regards as always,

bundyrum.