TR6 1969 TR6 [question of originality]

[LeeMcKee]

I'm helping a friend with a "MINT" '69 TR6 that he paid way too much for. It was sold to him as all original with a frame off restoration.
I think that he got sold a later car with a '69 comission plate.

How can I tell that it is a true 1969?

Here is a list of problems I see (I owned a 69 as well)
1) wrong valve cover - should be chrome but it is painted
2) wrong carbs - it has cd2's with adjestable needles
3) wrong side mirrors (has bullet style)
4) dimmer switch on floor not on column
5) the rear has been blacked out - something Triumph did after '71
6) 15 hole metal rims with silver center caps
7) Etc.. Etc... Etc..

What do Y'all think?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Andrew Mace]

1&2: I'm not sure about the valve cover but wouldn't be surprised if "painted" could be correct for TR6. As for carbs, they go along with what might well be a complete, swapped motor. (What's the serial number of the motor?)

3: Side mirrors were still primarily a dealer-installed item then, and the "bullet" mirrors were typical (at least in the Northeastern US) in '69.

4: Not sure about the dimmer switch, but I thought that it might only be the LATER cars that had the column dimmer switch and the off-side-head rocker switch on the dash?

5: Blackout is ok for most all TR6s as I understand it.

6: This is very common to see later wheels and center caps. A 1969, if it didn't have wire wheels, would've had the "pseudo-Rostyle" wheel covers as the TR250 did. Those wheels and wheel covers are now pretty scarce.

7: Check the commission number (and engine number) against the body number to see if they seem to go together.

Meanwhile, I've always enjoyed the concept of "all original with a frame off restoration"; doesn't seem to be very original if it's all been cleaned up and refinished now, does it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Tinster]

Too funny for words!! I also own a "mint", fully
restored "1969" TR6 that my wife paid waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy
to much $$$.

My "mint" car has to name but a few:

Engine block is a TR250
The carbs were early 70ish(I now have 69's)
Dash board 1969 but with a cig lighter where
the dash dimmer light rheostat should be.
1971 wheels
1970 seats
1970's red radiator fan blade
1972 emissions system in trunk-nothing up front.
1969 steering wheel
1953 Hill Minx exhaust system

So far I have only had to put another just under
$10K to polish up the mint condition TR6!! My "mint"
car is in reality a jigsaw puzzle of used parts that
I will meld into one fine looking and fine running auto.

That is unless the Boss makes me take to the car crusher
to get back 1/2 of our garage that is presently the dead
car crypt!

PS: Tell your friend he better get a part time job to
help pour money into his "Mint" car. I sell balloons and
hotdogs down at the cruise boat piers on Fridays nights.

d

 

[LeeMcKee]

You can tell where the guy put this car on a lift and just painted the underside... There was no "frame off" restoration. I'm sure of that.
If not I'm mistaken this should be a TR250 with a different body, Thanks to Mr.Karmann. So the car should be set up like a TR250 right?
Should I keep my big mouth shut and say "Yes Sir, nice car" or should I raise question to him? When I said he paid too much I mean he paid WAY too much. on the order of $24,000. The car has a Clunk in the rear end. (broken motor mount) the Tranny is Knackered Up and I'll be rebuilding the engine next week.
The funny thing is he has bought another TR6 and it will be delivered to me in two weeks for inspection.

P.T Barnham had a saying about guys like this..."One is born every minute."

 

[John_Mc]

$24K? Yikes! That does seem like waaaay too much. I would think you could get a "mostly" original car in excellent condition for half that. The other 12k is wasted on superfluous detail IMHO. But then again, I'm relatively new to this hobby (4yrs). Plus, I got a car that I think is really nice for 1/3 that (and I could have gotten it for less if I had any bargaining skills whatsoever and wasn't one of those guys born every minute). For the record, I have a '71 (build date April 70) and it has the painted valve cover, foot dimmer switch, blackened rear, single bullet mirror, ZS carbs,and the same rims you mentioned. I'm not sure what's supposed to be original for that year or not.

 

[LeeMcKee]

John, Your car sounds right for a '71.
I agree, You could have two NICE TR6's for that kind of money. I've always wondered who buys those cars from Barrett-Jackson or from DuPont Registry...Now I know.
His thinking was this... He was looking at a XK150 however at $70,000 He could only get a good/fair condition car. "I could get two nice cars for that!"
This just proves that everything is relative. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

 

[Guest]

Where was this guy when I was trying to sell my $35,000+ resto-mod hot rod TR6 for a mere $15,000? Geez Louise.



Bill

 

[John_Mc]

Bill, you know the whole forum will wear black the day you sell your TR6 (except for the guy who buys it-he'll be hootin' and hollerin' his lungs out!) So we hope you don't have to, because it's too hot to wear black.

 

[Andrew Mace]

[ QUOTE ]
You can tell where the guy put this car on a lift and just painted the underside...
Should I keep my big mouth shut and say "Yes Sir, nice car" or should I raise question to him?

[/ QUOTE ]Uh, is he a close friend? Does he have any recourse with the seller?

I guess I'd try to be as gentle as possible, but also HONEST in any assessment. Things like chrome v. painted valve covers and one type of wheel v. another are minor, but poor quality work (misrepresented? badly done or not done at all?) is not!

 

[Tinster]

The engine serial number tab of a TR250 is easy to
locate on the block --directly across from the
brake servo. That number will tell you immediately
if you have a TR6 block or not.

My "69TR" has vastly different CC #s all over the place.

The honest truth rarely gets one in hot water.
Unles it's about your wife's new polka dot shoes-
in that
case best to tell a small fib.

Tin

 

[trrdster2000]

LeeMcKee, you are a friend to help this poor guy out and all of us thank you, for the good of the cause. One of the things that may give you a problem when you put the engine back together is the carbs. They came off a TR4A and if the needles have not been changed to the early 6 ones it won't give the performance that the early TR6 was capable off. Good carbs and can be tuned great. Wayne

 

[LeeMcKee]

This gentleman and his wife are new to my area LBC club and seem nice enough. I'm sure that I will be seeing them at most, if not all, of the upcoming club events. I will have to say something.
I suppose the only reason I even let that fact that they paid so much for a car that is not worth $14,000 let alone $24,000 bother me is that there is someone out there who is passing this car off as something it is not.
Shame on them for not knowing what they were buying, Shame on the guy who rebuilt it for selling them the car.

I'll go outside and take some better pics and see what you guys think.

 

[roofman]

I believe that the steering wheel is a 1 year only 1969 type, and it also has the high back desirable bucket seats both from 69.

 

[LeeMcKee]

Here is the spot on the door frame that to me looks like there was a comission plate at one time.

 

[LeeMcKee]

The comission plate now on the wheel well.

 

[LeeMcKee]

Engine number

 

[LeeMcKee]

valve cover not chrome, wrong carbs, and isn't there suppose to be a EGR valve on the intake manifold?

 

[LeeMcKee]

Wrong wheels?

 

[philknight]

Lee, I had a 69 I bought from my brother inlaw in 1973 that was totally origional. Everything described says 69 except the wheels that everybody changed(the stock wheel covers being ugly) and the dipper switch, mine was on the column but there was a metal piece that I used as a footrest that was for a dipper switch,so maybe they did ship some with a foot switch. The carbs were probably switched as well and the spoiler was a later add. Phil

 

[TR4nut]

I had a 69 - wheels are wrong, they are missing obviously the rostyle covers but also the posts on the wheels for those covers. My 69 had a painted valve cover, if they carried chrome over from a TR250 it was only for the earliest commission numbers. Intake is wrong, missing Smiths PCV valve. Fan blade I think is late model too. I swear my 69 had a foot dimmer switch. Sounds like it is a mix of parts.

Randy