1960 Bugeye project

[GaryBeu]

I've always wanted a Bugeye...my wife and I have been offered one that is a MAJOR project but that part doesn't really scare us. The question is "will it be worth the time and expense"? Here's the deal.

It's been in a guy's shop for about 20 years. It has quite a bit of rust. It is mostly in pieces including the engine but seems like it's close to all there. We cannot find a data plate on the car or the engine but it is titlable as a restoration. Any guesses what it might be worth when finished as a "driver" and as a "restored"? Thanks for any comments.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

You will have more invested in the car than it is worth. You should only undertake a restoration on one of these cars if you enjoy the process. Otherwise, it would be wise to find a drivable version already restored and enjoy it.

Drivers go for 6-9K
Show quality 10-15K

...then again, I might be out of touch.

 

[Gundy]

If your heart desires a thing the money ain't the issue.
Life is too short to live it with regrets.
Over 30 years ago I sacrificed my beloved Sprite for larger needs. It ate at me every since.
Last year I bought another one. Man, I was a fool to wait so long. You can't take it with you as they say and the pleasure
I've had this past year is PRICELESS.
I say go for it, especially with the wife on board for the ride.

I do think in today's economic times the prices have fallen a bit.
Trevor's numbers look pretty spot on.
BUT....It doesn't sound like you are looking for one to shift.
I'd expect a full resto to set you back more than market price. They are a Ton-0-Fun. Nuttin' quite like 'em.

 

[GaryBeu]

Thanks for the info. We aren't looking to turn it at a profit but we'd like to have an idea of value especially since it won't have the original car and engine numbers. Will that detract a lot from value?

 

[ralph_s]

Numbers matching will drive the price and only be an issue for show cars. I'm 12 months into my resto on my 59 BE and have enjoyed every minute. I've understimated the time & $$'s required, but I'm in this for the long haul. My plan is to restore it, drive it and pass it onto my son. I'd suggest several things: Updrade to disk brakes, upgrade to 1275 engine, couple w/ rib cage tranny, replace the complete hydraulic system e.g. M/C, wheel cylinders & slave. There is very little that you can't rebuild with some time & patience on your shop bench. (and a good vise)
The BCF is an excellent resource for advice and suggested suppliers.
Short answer is go for it!!

 

[JPSmit]

while I agree with everything that has been said, they aren't so rare nor so expensive that you should start with a Piece of Cr*p. Get the best rust free that you can get - interior and sheet metal are what will cost you

 

[Gundy]

Thanks for the info. We aren't looking to turn it at a profit but we'd like to have an idea of value especially since it won't have the original car and engine numbers. Will that detract a lot from value?

I'd guess that would depend on what a buyer desires.
Generally matching number pristine original UNRESTORED
cars bring the most. Restored AS an original would fetch
good numbers if done expertly.
Rough drivers fetch less and projects go for the least.
Will a non-matching resto take a LOT from the value?
Depends on a buyer. I'd say a nicely done one would still be near the upper ranges in price.
I hate to talk about what I paid but mine is a resto/mod
and in pretty good condition. Lots of mods, some of which are
pretty pricey. The receipts total more than I paid for the car
but it was still at the upper range of Trevor's numbers.
The insurer agreed to insure it for way more than I paid.
Many collectors would cringe at ol Screamin' Mimi but it fit
my heart's desire to a tee.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

The other point here is ... IF you enjoy the restoration, then the expense will be spread out over several years and you will know exactly what you have got when you are finished. However, if you buy a finished car the total cost is cheaper and you get to enjoy it immediately, but you will not know exactly what you have and there might be less of a sense of "ownership" and you need all the money up front.

 

[Gundy]

Good points Trevor. I wanted instant gratification and just don't have the time now days to undertake another project.
I really enjoy the idea I did the work on my old Land Cruiser.
I did a Sprite 30+ years ago.

 

[GaryBeu]

You guys are a GREAT help...Thanks. So I'l guess around 7-8K value for a good looking driver and expect to more than that in it...right? But we do enjoy the work process and REALLY think we'll enjoy the driving!!

 

[ralph_s]

You're right on. It all depends on what you want out of the project. For me, I've got to take off every nut/bolt and put it back together. My satisfaction comes from the process. Also helps that I'm retired so time is less of a factor. If you go the restoration route plan on a long haul w/o any immediate driving gratification. Also the more work you send out the greater the expense! Do you have the space & time to commit to the project?
Drew would be a good member to weigh in as he has tons of recent experience.

 

[GaryBeu]

We do have the time and the space and we've been enjoying restoring a 1971 MGB. The money has to come a little at a time but, so what. We can do almost all of the work ourselves without sending much out. Who is Drew?

 

[fordtrucks4ever]

All of these old Bugeyes are rusty. Rockers, floors, bulkheads and spring mounts are the usual. I have been amazed how some people ressurect these outside in their backyards. I have seen bodies stripped and rolled up on the side to weld in new floorpans right out in the front yard. Some of these cars get finished and on the road. Others get pushed aside. Some people want the end result immediately and pay for that convenience. Others its a labor of love. Spend some time searching the internet. There are tons of websites that have detailed repairs of these cars, Bugeye, Sprite and Midget all share most of the same parts. If you feel the passion and the price is fair, then go for it. Get some pics posted so the veterans can give you an assessment of what you might expect. If you dont farm out too much work, its not that expensive to bring one back to life.

 

[GaryBeu]

Thanks for all of the encouragement. We'll most likely go for it!

 

[Gundy]

Thanks for all of the encouragement. We'll most likely go for it!

Take plenty of pictures so you can share with the group.
I look forward to following your project.

 

[Legal Bill]

Let me ask you this; can you do all the work, including body repair and paint? If not, bring a trusted bodyman to look at it and give you an idea of the price to actually do the work. What I mean by that is a price whereby they will take the time from doing profitable work on other cars and do this project. I've had body men give me great prices on cars that they never touched. They realized they could make more money on other projects and kept back-burnering my car.

 

[toysrrus]

Thanks for the info. We aren't looking to turn it at a profit but we'd like to have an idea of value especially since it won't have the original car and engine numbers. Will that detract a lot from value?

Howdy Gary,

I was just driving thru & found your post interesting. What everyone states here is pretty much on the Money. The "Re-Sale Value" of any car is usually in the "Eyes of the Beholder". Should you spend a bit of time on ebay; You`ll see some "Good Driver" B/Es selling in the low to mid teens. It appears to me that most of the B/Es have been modified to one degree or another which in most cases detracts from the selling price. It also appears to me; That there are`nt too many "Orig" cars out there anymore. So; If you have or can find an Orig; The "Value" surely increases. I just recently sold my `59 B/E (Orig. Nice Driver Cond) in the low teens (I ain`t saying how much cause it can generate alot of contraversy).

In any case; If you have the time, $$$ & patience; The projects are a lot of fun & you know exactly what you have when you`ve completed everything. Most "Long Term" projects typ. don`t get finished due to a variety of reasons. You`ll probably have more $$$ into Her than She`s worth but You`ll surely have the "Satisfaction" of knowing that you completed the Job & fulfilled your dream.

I`ll be starting a `57 TR3 this month with the expectation of finishing the car in Mar.2010. "Thats Fast"! Thats why I sold my B/E. I need the $$$ to complete the TR3 project "Quickly". Otherwise I would`ve kept the B/E as She was a heck of alot of fun to drive & I feel appreciating in value daily. Who would ever think that a "Austin Healey 3000" would bring $30,$40,$50K+ but they are!!

Best Wishes with Your B/E & Keep the faith as you go along,

Russ

 

[drooartz]

Drew would be a good member to weigh in as he has tons of recent experience.

That would be me, I believe.

I've had my Bugeye (the Tunebug) for about 3.5 years, and it's been off the road for 2.5 of those years. I bought it as an original driver-quality car, though it hadn't really run much since the late 60s and was mechanically a bit tatty. My original plan was just to drive it around, but the motor and cooling system needed serious help, so off I went into a full mechanical overhaul -- which turned into a 1275 build up and disc brake conversion.

When I bought the car, the fellow who looked it over for me (an auto restorer with lots of LBC experience) figured I'd need to put in about $10k to restore the car. Had I not gone for a high output 1275 build for the car that estimate would have been right on the money. As it is, I'll be well over that figure by the time I tackle the bit of rust here and there. No complaints, though, as this is a hobby for me and I never figured I'd make any money on this car -- and it allowed me to pay-as-I-went.

An advantage to Bugeyes is that they are simple cars, and the parts are relatively cheap. They made lots of Sprites/Midgets over the years, and many parts interchange (I've got the motor, transmission, and brakes from a '74 Midget in my car). These upgrades don't do much to hurt or help the values until you get the the upper extremes where the all original unrestored or perfectly restored cars live. I've kept all the original parts (including the original motor and transmission), so the Tunebug could be brought back to stock with a minimum of fuss.

Bugeyes have seemed to hold their value well as well, so you do get more of your investment back compared to the later cars. Others here have given good advice as well. If it's a car you really like, then it's worth having some fun and saving another one.

PM me if you're interested in more specific cost issues. I was a bookkeeper in a former life, so I've got complete records on what I've spent and I'd be happy to share.

 

[davester]

Perhaps it's my California bias showing but I wouldn't touch a car with any but minor surface rust on it. Bodywork is what will eat your restoration budget alive. My advice would be to wait, keep your feelers out, and find a solid, well-cared-for, rust-free vehicle (take a vacation trip to the rust-free southwest if necessary) that has been relatively well cared for, and spend a bit more money on it. One of those will likely still benefit from a restoration, but it'll cost you a heck of a lot less than buying a rough, non-intact car. I'm always watching craigslist for sprites and I've seen quite a few go by that were gems (original or second owner, pretty much original examples).