one less fortress

[YakkoWarner]

The B-17 incident was mentioned in Air Force Magazine with few details. Just read in today's edition there was an F-16 auger in in southern Germany this morning. Training exercise. Pilot punched out, minor injuries reported. Went down in a "rural area" no ground injuries.

I expect a lot of light will be shed onto the circumstances leading up to the accident when the survivors recover enough to be able to tell the investigators what occured. Much can be gleaned from video and examining the debris and markings on the ground, but firsthand information from the people who were actually on the plane will fill in details that can't be easily determined any other way.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

One of my buddies who has flown mentioned something the day it happened. Not speculating exactly, but he's seen it.

JET-A in an AVGAS wing tank.

He said when he flew, made dang certain the truck said AVGAS on the side.

Of course, I knew a guy (still do...in fact, he and family moved within 7 miles of me two months ago) who pranged a Helio when the gas he pumped in out in the jungle from 55-gallon drums was all water. Indians had siphoned all the gas out for their outboards, filled with water.
Beaker showed no water line......50 feet off the end of the strip and that's all she wrote.

 

[YakkoWarner]

One of my buddies who has flown mentioned something the day it happened. Not speculating exactly, but he's seen it.

JET-A in an AVGAS wing tank.

He said when he flew, made dang certain the truck said AVGAS on the side.

Of course, I knew a guy (still do...in fact, he and family moved within 7 miles of me two months ago) who pranged a Helio when the gas he pumped in out in the jungle from 55-gallon drums was all water. Indians had siphoned all the gas out for their outboards, filled with water.
Beaker showed no water line......50 feet off the end of the strip and that's all she wrote.

In that video from the NTSB they made reference to analyzing the fuel remaining in an intact wing tank. Prelim. analysis was that it was 100 octane low lead avation gas, and that the engine specification is 87 or higher. However, if the other wing tanks (on the side that burned) were improperly fueled it will require residue analysis to make a determination. They may also be able to determine something about the fuel quality by examining the spark plugs and valves of the engines. Probably not enough left of the fuel piping and routing/selector valves to make much of a determination from there. With all the security cameras and such in place around airports, it seems likely that somewhere there should be pictures or video of the fueling process, even if at a distance and that might determine if incorrect fuel was dispensed.

 

[DavidApp]

I am sure some of the passengers had video cameras running. That may be of some help if they did and the footage survived.

David

 

[DavidApp]

They may not have seen much of the engines judging by this video.

David.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvMlL-64yIw

 

[NutmegCT]

Preliminary accident report just issued.

 

[pdplot]

Sounds like it ran out of flying speed and pancaked in. Why?

 

[PAUL161]

Altitude and airspeed, you need both, but I can't understand how two highly trained, high time, highly experienced pilots had this happen to them. A mag problem on one of 4 engines shouldn't have created this scenario. Baffles me why they didn't continue to climb to a safe altitude, then set up to bring it back in. We might never know. Hard to imagine panic set in with the experience setting in those seats. Sad, so sad.

 

[NutmegCT]

Did anyone catch the finding that *both* right wing engines had the props feathered?

There's a horrible possibility of pilot error, which would explain the sudden veering to the right as it touched down - but again, just conjecture.

 

[PAUL161]

Did anyone catch the finding that *both* right wing engines had the props feathered?

There's a horrible possibility of pilot error, which would explain the sudden veering to the right as it touched down - but again, just conjecture.

Pilot error is a term I hate to put on anyone, but the possibility is certainly there, it only takes one to pull the wrong lever by accident.

 

[pdplot]

Law #21 - If it's even remotely possible, it will eventually happen. I'd like to see the final seconds of the incident, just before the crash. Sounds like asymmetrical thrust to me with no time and space to correct the problem. Just above the earth on short final is no place for a screwup to occur.

 

[PAUL161]

The mind works in mysterious ways at times, especially under pressure and ones thought process can get mixed up, some get away with it and some sadly don't.
A good friend of mine had a bad habit of dragging his tail on final approach, he was told about this many times, but he would continuously do it. One night he was coming back from a trip with his daughter and son in-law, final was over trees, he hit a tree top and it sucked them into the ground killing all three. I got a call and got to the airport as the emergency crew was getting them out of the wreck, terrible sight to behold. I remember that incident as if it was yesterday, it happened 25 years ago. PJ

 

[pdplot]

I always came in "too high". Dragging one in is a great way to get kilt. You can't go around if you hit a tree.

 

[PAUL161]

The following day I was at the scene and by standing on the end of the runway, one could follow the path through the trees the plane took. The reason for the crash was quite evident. Flying at night and those approach lights disappear on final, common sense tells one that there is something between you and them! You don't have to land on the numbers if the runway is long enough, nothing wrong with a, (slightly), higher approach, especially at night.

 

[Bayless]

Just saw that the B-29 "Doc" will be at the air show here soon. Selling ride tickets now. Cheap seat, gunner, is $600. All others are from $1200 to $1500. I think it is the same one we saw a couple of years ago and I couldn't afford the ride then either. I did get a good tour though.

 

[waltesefalcon]

Doc was at Altus a couple of years ago. It is based out of Wichita I believe so coming to Oklahoma would just be a short jaunt. Of course, Fifi is based out of Ft. Worth so it isn't too far either.

 

[NutmegCT]

Speaking of Fort Worth ... if only there was one of these still flying:

 

[HealeyRick]

NTSB report released