TR2/3/3A Eng out and apart

So in a previous thread, I had a deal to do body work and paint but that fell thru. But I had already pulled the eng and trans. So now I'm starting the rebuild of the eng, is their any mods that should be done while it's apart?
Its gonna get all new gaskets and seals as well as bearings, now is the time to do that stuff. The crank is still in the block with the pistons so not 100% sure about those yet but from my quick look I'd say they are fine. The head is off the block but it's still complete, I'll be doing the tear down in a bit, I want to deal with all the oily dirty stuff first.

So just for the eng, what are the must do modification to keep it reliable, and trouble free.
Thanks

Rear seal for the engine as explained in the thread going on right now. I suggest buying a sleeve, piston and ring set, I went to the 87mm. The 89 requires a different head gasket. If there are many miles on your engine, the sleeves will be slightly out of round, causing a loss in compression. If you did a compression test prior to tear down, that will give a better indication of what you are starting with. I always install a new oil pump, or at least new gears. It is a simple engine, so the rest depends on how much you want to spend. IE: new tappets, new oil pump, new valves, head skim, etc.

Jerry

As noted, much depends on what the condition of the engine was before all this. If it is an unknown, you can measure the roundness of the cylinder with a suitable caliper, measuring at both the top and bottom of the stroke. Piston, rings and liner sets are temptingly cheap if in doubt.

For the head I would get hardened seats for the exhaust valves. Without them, hard driving with modern fuels will eventually cause the valves to recede.

I removed the engine myself, removed everything from the block and sent the block and head to my machinist. Had him boil out the block and check it for cracks. The cylinders were out of round. It was cheaper for me to have him bore it out then it was to buy a sleeve kit. I had him do the valve job along with the hardened seats. I had him do all the work on the head. I replaced all of the bearings in the block and installed a new oil pump, new water pump, pistons, rings, gaskets tappets and anything else that looked questionable. Put in a new cam and had the crank turned. This is probably more then some people would do, but since everything is torn down; it's easier to do then later on.

Thanks for the info, I'll be doing as much of it as I can ( parts will go with me to work and in my free time I'll be cleaning/repairing). I won't know what the shape the block is in for a bit so it can stay covered up and waiting for me. I hope to have the block dissassembled and cleaned/checked and ready to go back toghter by springtime but, I'm moving so that will make things interesting. But I do have lots of free time while I'm at work.

So rear main seal and exhaust seats are the must! Piston and liners if needed, but no other upgrades? What fails inside the eng? Nothing except for wear?
Thanks for the quick replies

Make sure the head stud holes on the left side of the engine block front and back are not cracked at the threads. A few people on the forum, me included found this out recently.

Hello
Below is a list of the modifications to my '60 engine:
Block dipped, steamed and painted

TR6 8 blade plastic fan

Thin belt pulley conversion

Negative ground alternator conversion
Water pump upgraded 5 vane plus aluminum water pump housing
Hi Torque starter
87mm piston and liner kit
TR3/4 Performance camshaft
Heavy duty tappets
Upgraded rear seal kit
Complete head rebuild with no lead valve seats
ARP head studs
Complete HS6 SU carburetors rebuilt
Ceramic coated exhaust headers - custom dual exhaust
Pertronix electronic ignition with high output Pertronix coil and Mallory plug wires
Spin on oil filter conversion
Re-cored radiator without crank hole
Oil pump kit
New timing gears with new dual link chain and tensioner
All moving parts balanced

That should get you started :fat:.

Have the block crack checked at a machine shop. I also think that balancing the engine parts contributes vastly to longevity.
Bob

Are they hiring where you work? I need a job like that. I am bit of an old hippie, so spending money and doing a perfect job is something I am not doing most of the time, but often I wish I could afford it. It sounds like you want a budget deal when you say I left the crank in place and I assume the cam also. So, and if you want to do a good cheapie and you have heard the motor run plus have some history with the motor( no knocks), you can leave the crank and cam in place.

On the bottom end replace the timing chain tensioner and seal. You could leave the chain if it not too sloppy and somewhere there is a number for the play. Replacing the rear seal depends on how bad it was leaking. I have heard of people replacing the seal with the MadMax seal and leave the crank in, but I have not done it that way and they two hundred bucks, but they work well. I would pull the pistons out put new rings on and ball hone the motor and maybe new rod bearings. The oil pump has an easy life, so again if the motor ran I would use the old pump after a good cleaning

On the top end, you should have the head done with new valve guides and new valves plus a new rocker shaft and resurface the lifters.
To get these motors to run half decent you will new a distributor that functions correctly. The timing needs to advance and fall back smoothly and the carbs need to work proper and not have air coming in from other sources/vacuum leak.

I am probably going take some heat for my cheapie ideas, but to do one of these motors first kinda classis about 4K, and I have done it both ways.

Thanks for all the ideas guys,
-thanks croz for your list, I was gonna do some of them just for easier parts, but didn't think of some of them.
-Mallard I'll check the studs, once I get to the block, will add it to the list of things to watch out for.
- Sp53- nope they are not really hiring at work unless you can fix airplanes, but I'm doing the rebuild as a winter project, space is tight at work so I can't have the complete eng sitting there, but I will be pulling the crank,pistons,cam, and clean and check the liners, replace the rings, I'm doing it on a budget but I want a eng that will be trouble free. I don't want the -oh you should have changed that while it's apart, kinda deal.
I had the eng running 8 years ago, but.....
Thanks for some of the cheapie ideas, I'll keep some of them in mind. When I say I'm on a budget, it's that I'm doing all/most of the work, I can't do the machining, so that will be sent out but everything else will be done by me. Buy new where it's need, reuse the old where I can. Update as required to keep it on the road trouble free for as long as I can. I'm gonna be changing all seals and gaskets ( who knows when they were last done, and the car has been sitting for 20+years), rings, not sure about the pistons and liners yet, fuel pump diaphragm or it will go electric not sure yet, on the fence on valve seat, but am leaning to doing them so I don't regret not doing them later. I haven't looked into the head yet, once I'm done with all the little parts the head will come with me into work and be measured and decide on a action plan.
-bobhustead thanks, I'll think about doing a balance, not sure if I want to go to that extreme, I'm trying to keep it as close to factory with no real power upgrades so...... I may check the parts on a scale at work and fix any major unbalance but, it would hang to be fairly large I think.
So onto an update, most of the accessories are removed, head is off, oil pan, pump, distributor, fuel pump, most of the bits have gone to work with me for cleaning and inspection, getting the list ready for an order, so far it's been gross and dirty, but no major damage, so hopefully lots can be reused, but on quick inspection most of it will be reused, still need to make sure it's all within tolerance.
Now on to a quick question, what color is the eng suppose to be? Some of the parts are painted black, some have a blue/green paint some is bare metal. Some is a mixture of all 3 so I'm having trouble, is it blue/green or black? And as well what did you guys paint all the engine with?
thanks

Engine should be black enamel. VHT makes a very nice engine paint that you can buy from FLAPS or Summit Racing. I had my rocker assembly rebuilt for about $160. It was worth it. All machine work was about $1600, including balancing. My TR3A engine pulls hard to 5,000 RPM and is super smooth. I'm really happy that I had the entire rotating assembly balanced. IMO, the stock fuel pump with a TRF rebuild kit is more than sufficient. I was going to go electric and now happy that I didn't. I had distributor rebuilt by Jeff at Advance Distributors. He does such a fantastic job and checks advance on his machine. Just makes the tuning so much easier.
If you tank the block and/or head, make sure aluminum plugs are replaced. That was a major headache for me...

I installed new cam bearings and BPNW road cam. Thus far, I really like it - the car pulls hard from low RPM and is a lot of fun to drive.

Pat

Hello Pat,

On your rebuild, did you reuse the old oil pump and did you use a running in oil?

Walter

TR3TR6 said:

The cylinders were out of round. It was cheaper for me to have him bore it out then it was to buy a sleeve kit.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I have never found a shop that will bore the wet liners. Some motorcycle shops will do them but not cost effectively. Perhaps you mean he honed them? Honing does not make them round but you can turn them 90 degrees to balance the wear.
Tom

Hi Walter

Yes, I used the old oil pump. Just checked the tolerances per the factory manual. It was within tolerance, so back in it went. And yes, there are a few break in oils out there. My machine shop gladly sold me about six quarts of break in oil that I ran for about 500 miles. Seemed like a good idea. I only have about 3,000 miles on the engine, but so far, she runs great.

My compression is uniform at around 165 psi per cylinder, plus or minus about 5 psi.

pat

Thanks for this information, Pat. Unfortunately my original pump was lost and am in the process of trying to locate a good one since I do not hear great things about the reproduction pumps. However, I look forward to enjoying my car as you are yours, hopefully by the end of the year.

Regards, Walter