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Seized Landies

aeronca65t

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A few years ago, a friend of mine bought an old Land Rover that had just been imported. It was 25 years old and all the paperwork had checked out.

He's been slowly restoring it.

I hadn't seen him in a while, but saw him today so I asked about his Land Rover.

He just frowned and told me his Rover had been seized by federal agents last Summer! :dejection:

His was ~One of These Vehicles~

There is a Rover enthusiast who is also a lawyer working on the case pro-bono. A few of the vehicles have been returned to their owners but most are still in some sort of legal limbo.

Lousy situation......
 

Gliderman8

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Seems silly to take 40 vehicles over something that has not been proven as a violation. Why not take legal action against the importer if it was determined to be a violation?
 

Gliderman8

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Other questions I have are:
Why wasn't it determined to be illegal by the inspectors when the shipment of vehicles first entered the port of disembarkation?
Why not refuse them entry into the US if they were indeed illegal?
 
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Steve

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I believe that part of the problem is that a lot of the documents and vehicle ID plates were doctored to make them appear to be over 25 years old when in fact they are not. Minis are faked a lot, unfortunately, and when the values of these Landies started to take off in the USA, fakery became rampant. They can be bought for a song in the UK. Not saying that your friend's is one of these, but it was caught in the nest.
 
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aeronca65t

aeronca65t

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Correct Steve.

A lot of old, legal 850 Minis in the US were sacrificed and their VIN plates went on much newer Canadian Minis that were driven over the border for a "visit", never to return to Canada.

I do understand how they could seize the vehicles at the time of import.......but waiting until they are sold off and then waiting for several years seems a bit much to me.
As I see it, the NHTSA and DOT certified this car to be legal at time of entry. How would an ordinary citizen know any better?

My friend believes that even if the dealer is put in jail (he's currently free), it is unlikely his assets will be sold off to compensate those who may have bought improperly documented vehicles. In other words, my friend will lose all the money he paid for this.

And on another level, my friends vehicle was a shabby, 4 cylinder, RHD '86 Defender. He's already checked and the LR factory records indicates that by the engine and chassis it's a real '86.
But even if it turned out to be an '88, I would say, in the scheme of things, "What's the harm?".
Ahh well......I'll report back if there is any resolution.
 
D

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I knew a Brit local who brought in a LR with the later diseasemal engine. He swapped the tags in England, drove it here for several years until time to return to England...he kept the old tags....and swapped them back.
If the guy has the documentation from LR, and presents a copy, he should be fine.
 

HealeyRick

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A little perspective here. IF these vehicles were imported and not in compliance with EPA and NHTSA regs, or entitled to an exemption, they are contraband and subject to seizure by the government. The fact that a purchaser buys one in good faith doesn't change the fact that it's subject to seizure. The government basically starts a case in federal court against the vehicle with the vehicle named as a defendant. Note, the legal case isn't against the owner of the vehicle, it's against the vehicle itself, but obviously the consequences will be felt by the owner. The government must make out probable cause to a federal judge the vehicle was imported illegally and if shown, the judge will issue an arrest warrant against the vehicle, giving the government the right to seize it. You can see what the government alleged was done illegally in the importation of the Land Rovers in the pdf of the complaint here: centresteer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Defendersourcecopy.pdf Basically the government alleges the years the vehicles were manufactured were misrepresented in order to gain an exemption or they were imported before the year they were entitled to the exemption. The owners will be entitled to raise a defense against the evidence provided that the vehicles are non-compliant. And yes, there are criminal fines and penalties that can be imposed against someone who illegally imports a non-complying vehicle.
 

HealeyRick

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D

Deleted member 8987

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And I don't know if that's before arrival or if you update after it's here.
Imagine a vehicle that's been here over 30 years..and you change power plants..and the Feds show up at your door.
Heck, what if you change tyre size?

Interestingly, one place in those links mentions a galvanized frame as being a problem.
So, if you pull your LR down, strip it, send the frame off to be galvanized....the thugs show up at 0430?
 

Steve

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If it's the original frame, then having it repaired and galvanized should be fine. Likewise bolting on different wheels or changing the tire size. From the looks of things, as long as the vehicle was imported legally in the first place there is much that can be done.
 
D

Deleted member 8987

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If it's the original frame, then having it repaired and galvanized should be fine. Likewise bolting on different wheels or changing the tire size. From the looks of things, as long as the vehicle was imported legally in the first place there is much that can be done.

Not necessarily. Changing wheel and tyre size violates the EPA guidelines. The EPA just now has the Homeboy Security to run raids for them.

You can't even change to a K&N air filter on a federal emission controlled vehicle.
 

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